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it depends what the throwaway comment is though susie. If you had had 4 children by 4 different partners then you may find the term 4x4 used about you hurtful.
I agree with most of what you say, I also agree with what most of what you have said about her. I have no problem with her, at all. I just simply am not offended, as a woman, by what i see as a throw away comment, sexist, or not.
It is of little to no importance to me at all. Which i do not feel I need to justify nor do i feel I need to provide evidence either. Infact, UJ and how she lives her life, and what she does strangely is also of little to no importance to me. I simply do not care what the woman does.
OK so tell me one instance where a man has had a nickname or a quip about him that went round the media and the www, about having children within relationships, by different women? One example? I can't think of any.
Sometimes men get the piss taken out of them when they've been unfaithful, but Ulrika's children aren't the accidental result of infidelity, she was in a relationship with each of her children's fathers when she became pregnant. Sometimes they get the piss taken out of them if they have kids at 70 or when they're really old. But again, that's not Ulrika's situation. Having children by different mothers, is just not one of the occasions for taking the piss out of a man, as it is for a woman. That's why I think it's sexist. You can disagree of course, but I wish you'd post some evidence for the basis of your disagreement. I've explained quite fully why I think it's sexist, but I don't think anyone has fully explained why they think it isn't. I'm genuinely interested tbh.
The word predicament is very misleading as I just don't think she has or has ever claimed to have one.She is young rich lovely with 4 beautiful kids and a good career although I agree she is not tv presenter of the year there are a lot worse.
WEll, I do not agree sleighbells ringing. Firstly, I have stated i did not read the whole thread or the article. I think it very well could and will be used to describe a man too. It just happens it was a woman on this occasion.
I am perfectly observant, and intelligent too. I just disagree.
I'm not interested in the rest of the debate about her, I am not getting into it. I am not threatened by her, by any means. I am pleased, genuinely, for anyone who is happy and has been successful. She is a working mother who has had a shit run of relationships, and is still standing, still moving forward, appears happy and remains successful. I am just not offended by the 4x4 comment.
I think that's wishful thinking. She seems very happy to me, she is obviously an optimist.
If you can't see why 4x4 on its own is sexist, then you're not very observant and/ or you haven't read the thread. It is sexist because it would never be used about a man as a throway quip. It just wouldn't. Nobody notices if men have kids by 24 women. It simply doesn't matter. It matters when women do and that's why it's sexist. Sorry to be so basic, but really, where is the difficulty in seeing sexism here?
Paula, glad you didn't take offence I suppose some people might be threatened by her but I can't think of a good reason tbh. Seems like she is/was a very unhappy woman with a string of failed relationships and an inability to sort the wheat from the chaff so to speak. She also looks like she's had stresses in her life. I'd hate to be in her shoes.
kitty - i take offence at a barage of sexist comments that this woman has to endure on these boards
i am in no way 'priggish' but am quite amused you think so
Ulrika is tall blonde, very pretty, fabulous figure and most importantly is an educated and articulate woman
her life choices may be a little iffy but i feel that the majority of hurtful and vitriolic comments on here come from people who feel 'threatened' by her
I would just like to say, for the record, I wasnt really taking any side at all. I was just not liking the general barrage that was being hurled at one person, who did have an opinion, and which was not the same as the majority....
I also did think the 4x4 comment was a witty quip, which was not, in itself being judgmental, or nasty or rude etc.. just a factual '1 liner' about the truth of her having 4 children by 4 fathers.. that in itself is not judgmental or sexist, IMO...
I also stated I had not read the rest of the interview/ article, which may well have been judgmental, and which i would no have found amusing nor would i have agreed with that.
I am currently a 1x1! and hope that will increase, to 2x1 3x1 etc.. however, i am realistic, and am more than aware that I may be misfortunate and this relationship may break down and i may indeed have more children in a different relationship, who knows what the future will hold.
I certainly would never be smug about my situation verses anyone elses. I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with any woman who has children in more than one relationship. it could happen to any of us (who have not already happened to), and statistically most likely will!
paulayatesfan thank you! my gaping hole is not so sore today, having woken up with a pillow covered in blood... again, I apologise for being an oversensitive nightmare!
joined this V Late, frankly dont care how many children/fathers/metaphors with vehicles are made about ulrikka - like all celebrities she inhabits La-La-La land and unlike us will never worry about the mortgage payments or getting to supermarket after work
I think its quiet funny too!! Its only stating a fact though!!
I personally am a 4 x 1 buts thats not to say I would never have been a 4 x 4!
I say fair dues to her though she is doing her best. At the end of the day you have Angelina Jolie another women with 4 kid with different fathers and mothers!! and she is looked at with admiration whereas poor Ulrika is being slagged off!
What does it matter where they come from once they are loved!!
Of course they are RUTY that's the whole point of a debate, sadly it's HOW it's done that is sh*t. Just have a look at how the minority here have been lambasted. Usual stuff for MN but a load of hypocritical rubbish.
Paula, I find you ever so smug and self righteous, very 'holier than thou'. You are probably not like this in RL, well I hoe not but on this thread you are somewhat 'priggish', no offence intended ( no doubt you will take some nevertheless) but you come across like that to me.
www, I disagree that she has never hurt anyone. She has had at leas two affairs, i which people got hurt - I hasten to add that of course she did not have the affairs on her own (just in case anyone misunderstands again). That is the only point I have made on this thread, nothing to do with bullying (which another poster inferred in her reply to me) or to do with her children. My own children have different fathers.
Oh the word bollocks can be quite eloquent at times. Especially when people are pretending to be victimized, when other people have only calmy reasoned their own point of view.
Gryffin get your hard hat ready as I said almost the same last night and got a barrage of bombs and my words twisted and misused then thrown back at me.
Maybe you have said it better than me tho and will be ok
woah there, I'll probably get shot down in flames here, but I thought the 4x4 quip was witty - and factual, come to think of it . I don't disapprove of or condemn UJ or her choices. If I heard that gag down the pub I would laugh. And it's not the 4x4 joke that will hurt her DC's, it is the fact that their mum is being joked about by the general public and in the press where they can read it. But the joke is in the press because UJ has chosen to use the media in the past and, in this case, to draw attention to her 4th pregnancy - possibly for sound financial reasons. possibly to get back at the media - but nevertheless this thrusts her and by default her DC's into the public eye (again).
UJ is selling her story to the papers, she knows how things work and she gets the cash.
as an individual i dont think most of us have an opinion on her- ex weather girl/TV presenter/wife etc fine- but the dicussion has gone on from her to the principle of is is ok to sell your story then complain when people may not agree with you
I haven't read the whole thread so will probably repeat what others have said. The 4x4 joke is mildly witty but, for me, to laugh at it is to collude with a patriarchal way of thinking.
We all find life hard at times and have to make hard choices. We then seek to justify them to make ourselves feel secure and some people do this by slagging off people that have made different choices. Mumsnet has many examples of this, e.g. Breastfeeders feel smug and disapprove of formula feeders and formula feeders feel attacked and disapprove of judgmental breastfeeders.
Smug marrieds disapprove of single mothers because they think they are careless rather than just unlucky. Those who have lived a charmed life (thus far) look down on those whose lives appear haphazard but it's not as simple as that and religion has a lot to say about this.
Ok, maybe UJ is something other than just unlucky. Maybe she is not suited to long-term relationships. I think she is a bit bonkers, and possibly foolhardy, but, as some others have said, you do have to admire her resilience, ebullience and downright shiny, brazen, indefatigable optimism.
Why shouldn't she have children by different men? Matriarchal societies have been doing it for thousands of years. She is the constant in her children's lives and, although her career is not necessarily something to be admired, she does seem to be capable of financially supporting her own family. Stop the knee-jerk, brain-washed disapproval of situations which are different from your own or the prescribed norm.
I've just had my tooth taken out and have lots of stitches in the gaping hole it left behind. It hurts alot, and keeps bleeding. and my back is giving me terrible jip too.
none of which are at all relevant to anything, other than eaplaining why I might be being very oversensitive.blush] very sorry. pills, of any type would be a good idea... sorry
( and that i have something to do with mince pies in my name so thought you meant me..)
Paulayatesbiggestfan where the hell did you get that quote from, and why are you asking me? why are yo now insisting on having a dig at me, when ALL i have done is suggest that people back off a little form barraging abuse at UC!
FGS! now i look back here and you have left this for me??? why??
I'm leaving this thread now, its upset me totally. I'm not causing any trouble.
I hate it when arguments ensue on here, I have enough nasty stuff in RL, and dont come here for it. so please leave me alone. I was trying to keep the peace a little. I have never, and do never intend to fall out with anyone on here. Please dont drag me in and start on me.
I'm a bit scared to say anything here incase some one sends the heavies round, so before I start lets all take a deep breath, get out of the chair , have a stretch, then come back ...
ok
The attacks on women when it comes to sexuality have been a constant in recorded history as far back and as recent as you could care to go. Just think about those poor women who were recently released from mental hospitals as old women when their only crime was to get pregnant out of wedlock? Their incarceration is a shame that no official has ever properly apologised for.
This does illustrate the fact that women are considered wholly responsible for the control of their fertility. 2 people have a shag but "she" is the one who gets pregnant. The playing field is becoming more even (more of a steep hillside than a cliff face- better but not great) but societies opinion does not change overnight.
I'm not going to defend the joke by explaining why it can be seen as funny - mostley because I'm still scared of those heavies, but also because I don't think this discussion is about UJ any more.
paula, I' ve not read all the posts by everyone, by any means, just the last couple of pages, and it seems a bit much to me, thats all. yet, on it goes...
I'm not arguing, so please dont bring me into it.
I happened to read the prostitute comment as a turn of phrase, and nothing more, yet others wanted to read it otherwise and jumped on UC for it. this is what i was commenting on.
And there is much worse stuff said about UJ outside this forum. I think this thread is very much the tip of the iceberg. She probably does the Hello stuff because it pays so well and means she can be with her kids. I would cringe at the thought of doing it myself (not that anyone would ask!!) but if my career wasn't doing so well, I had three kids to look after and someone was waving a fat cheque and I could approve all the words and pictures, I might well be tempted. To be fair to her, I think the latest appearance she toned down the 'at last I've found Mr perfect' stuff. And I don't think there were any pictures of her children, but I might be wrong. I don't read hello.
I apologised to UC when I thought I'd been too personal. But the point is, this isn't about her. It's about a whole climate in which women are slags and tarts and can't keep their kickers on and - worst of all - 'have spread their legs' for stuff that just doesn't get said about men. The 4x4 comment sounds just a silly joke, but I think in a climate where you get all the rest of it, it's not benign.
i just hate it when these threads end up being a general "barrage of abuse" at one person, who is not in complete agreement with the majority... it makes an uncomfortable read.
I hate the thought of anyone sitting at home, in their living room, having to defend every word they write.
I take both your points actually, and agree in part with both of you, in different ways
I'm enjoying the argument that because Ulrika Johnston has given a couple of interviews people are simply forced to be nasty about her. It must be hard to be that out of control of your own choices.
Oh come off it. If a man was left by a woman in the way Ulrika was left, to raise a baby who could have died, he would be absolutely worshipped. Colin Farrell was absolutely drooled over for saying nice things about his disabled son, even though he left the boy's mother and she is his primary carer. The bar is set very low for celebrity fathers. Ewan McGregor has three kids, yet has twice buggered off for months to jaunt around the world, yet when his wife said she'd like to join him for a couple of weeks, loads of people (even on here) slagged HER off, and demanded to know who'd be looking after the kids. He is generally thought of as a brilliant father. I am always seeing posed pictures of Rod Stewart with his many kids, with lots of admiring words about how great a father he is.
"" Actually, if a man was father to four children, and at least one of the mothers had pissed off forever leaving him with a baby with a severe heart defect, he'd be canonised, not criticised.""
i wholly agree with you there Dara, bloody good point.
I do infact agree with all you have been saying, just not why its directed at one particular poster.
I would say she talks less about her kids than most famous people. They are 'brought into the public domain' primarily simply because she is famous. She is famous because being on TV is her job, and it makes you famous. It also pays quite well, which I imagine is useful when you have a big family.
i dont actually see where Universally challenged has been calling UJ names. I have read the prostitute comment, which was, as I read it, a turn of phrase, and NOT suggesting she was a prostitute.
I think a few of you are being overly harsh, and quite unpleasant to universally challenged, for merely having a different opinion to your selves.
It is not sexist, to comment on a woman, on a thread which is about a woman!
Stop the stone throwing, just because you have a difference of opinion.
Don't you think it's reasonable to challenge those opinions when they are based on unpleasant notions of inequality and outdated ideas about the value of women being based on their chastity? Just as if a black celebrity gave interviews in Hello magazine, should they then have to 'take the comeback' of people making racist jokes about them? Would that be a reasonable outcome? Or should other people make it clear that this is not acceptable? Of course people are free to have sexist opinions, but they can also expect to be pulled up on them, and it would be reasonable if they thought a bit about why they think it is OK to sneer at a woman for behaviour that is considered completely unremarkable in a man. Actually, if a man was father to four children, and at least one of the mothers had pissed off forever leaving him with a baby with a severe heart defect, he'd be canonised, not criticised.
As a previous post of mine stated, I dont agree with people being nasty to/about her kids which is why I never have.She has brought them into the public domain, not me
"She must then take the comeback from that. Why is it horrid and vicious to state that?"
Because it assumes that the sexist, cruel comeback is a natural result of "being Ulrika" for want of a better term. Because it justifies those people who are choosing to deal out the "comeback". She wouldn't have to take any comeback, if people with nothing better to do, didn't choose to deal it out. It isn't necessary to be cruel about her and her children, it isn't an inevitable consequence of doing a few interviews. Many people have found it really easy to get through life being largely unaware of this woman's existence; how many children she has had by how many men has never really entered their consciousness, let alone propelled them to dole out "comeback" to the erring Ulrika. Are they all oddballs, devoid of normal responses or something?
I would say exactly the same about a man doing the same thing, but this thread is about UJ doing an interview for shed loads of money and then people saying we should all say "Aah bless" and having no other opinion.
Start a thread about the men if your that bothered about perceived sexism Elizabetth, and I will comment on that too!
Please see my previous comment, I didnt say she was a sexual prostitute.
I said she has prostituted her family's personal life for money. There are more meanings to the pros word than just the sexual one. Please stop twisting my wor
Ok, sorry, I was a bit mean to you there. But really, I don't get the argument that goes 'she did a nice paid-for interview about her wedding in Hello, so I absolutely have to call her a slag'.
But she'd be damned if she did, damned if she didn't universally. If she didn't give the interviews people would make up stuff about her. As they appear to be doing here. She's not a prostitute or a slag afaics yet she gets called one. Out of order imo
As I pointed out she very, very rarely talks about her children, and only in a vague, nice way, except to describe her daughter's heart problems while she was patron of a charity for children with heart problems. I really fail to understand why that absolutely compels UC and her ilk to call her names. Is the law or something UC? Or just a neurotic compulsion of yours? Do you go around calling Bruce Forsyth a slag?
dara I actually agree with most of what you say - what I am saying is that if she didnt talk to the mags in the first place and tell us her personal life then we wouldnt know it.
Universally, for all the reasons already stated. Because there is nothing intrinsically WRONG with having four children. Or by four different partners. Or, if there is, by some people;s standards, then why don't Mick Jagger or any numbver of celbrity men get called names for it?
UJ hasn't hurt anyone appears to be a decent mother
yet people think it ok to slag her off purely because of the number of children and partners she's had. What's it to any of us? She's done nothing wrong!
She does interviews. I have never seen her reveal any more details of her children's lives that are any more intrusive than any other famous person. She hardly talks about them at all. Brad Pitt was talking about his family the other day, everyone does. They say nice things say nice things about their kids in interviews. I remember she spoke about HER feelings about her daughter Bo's heart operation and how difficult it was for all of them. Is that so terrible? She is the patron of a charity for children with heart problems. So that makes it OK to sneer at her for - what? - having sex? Having four children? For being twice divorced? The world is full of people who have been divorced twice. And people like Bruce Forsyth. Divorced three times. Kids with four different mothers - and he didn't bring up the kids either. She sounds a very loving mother. Never smacks her children, breastfed them, stayed at home with them, nursed one of them through a life-threatening illness. I think she has done amazingly well actually, especially considering that she was abandoned by her own mother as a little girl. I bet her kids are all very glad they were born and that she is their mother.
"What you are basically saying is that it's ok for her to prositute herself to the highest bidder for her children's monetry welfare and we must all keep shtum about it. And Elizabethh, you've got the wrong person. I have never said about the 4 x 4 comment bei"
Yeah calling her a prostitute is so much better.
Do you take any responsibility for these nasty sexist things you are saying? You don't need to be like that, you could just ignore her. She's not actually hurting you. Why be so vicious?
I personally dont like UJ. not sure why, I've never been able to put my finger on it, but I've never liked her. By that I mean what i've seen of her. The image she has portrayed of herself, clearly, I dont actually know her.
I'm not sure why << prepares for roasting >> this is seen as being so nasty, taken on its own, without the article I assume it came from. ( not read it, this is the first i've seen of it. )
I mean, its a fact is it not? She has had 4 children BY 4 partners. therefore, 4x4 is correct... the "statement" is not saying she is a slag, its not being judgmental its just saying the truth in what's meant to be a slightly amusing way...
Like I say, i've not read the paper/article about it. I'm just separating the 4x4 bit from the rest of it. Some people may find it amusing, some wont. Clearly, if the rest of the article IS commenting on her unfortunate relationship history, then id understand totally why anyone would be annoyed, upset etc by it, but as a standalone comment, I cant see what the problem is.
why "horrid"? I am not using it in the sexual meaning, I am saying she has sold her personal family situation for money.
Lots of people if they wanted to protect their children from people knowing their mother's personal life would sell their xmillion pound house and downsize. a lot of us do that to make things easier, she has chosen to go another way which attracts opinions. she is a bright lady, she knows the way these things work
So you can have an opinion that what she does is ok, but I cant have one that there is no such thing as a free dinner? If she talks about her family then why cant others?
What you are basically saying is that it's ok for her to prositute herself to the highest bidder forherchildren'smonetrywelfare and we must all keep shtum about it. And Elizabethh, you've got the wrong person. I have never said about the 4 x 4 comment bei
well I'm sure she'd rather fund her children's education by presenting a wonderful TV show but there are two problems there. One, it would take her away from her children most of the time [would she then also be a bad mother?] and two, as beautiful women get older on TV they tend to not get employed so much, as opposed to the opposite happening to men. Funny that. So of course she is going to look after her children as generously as she can, and if that means giving the media what they want, then good on her.
"I also hate the way she gets criticised for being hit and raped. But that's incredibly common I think. A woman comes out and says she was hit or attacked by someone she was in a relationship with, and she gets really vicious attacks made on her character. It's like Saudi Arabia sometimes - flog the rape victim because she's a WHORE!"
Well said Dara. Attacking the victim is a common response to women who have been hurt by men. It's a really nasty response.
UniversallyChallenged she might be in the firing line but nobody is forcing you to pull the trigger. That's your choice and anybody else who sniggers at her being called 4x4 or whatever.
So because she is "funding" her children's school fees then you feel opening up their lives to public opinion is ok? Whereas if she was using the money for a holiday for e.g. that wouldnt be?
Well it will be interesting then to see if UJ cares enough about her children to keep her mouth shut in the future then. Or will the lure of the pound be too much and she will put them in the firing line of opinion again by doing interviews and pics with new baby/partner?
Anyone who uses put downs like that, is also putting down the children. So ha fucking ha, that's hysterically funny, upsetting 7 year olds and adding to the climate of letting them know they're not as good as other kids.
Why any adult would want to do that, is really, really beyond me.
Mick Jagger has seven children by four mothers, by the way
Karis (with Marsha Hunt) Jade (with Bianca Jagger) Elizabeth (with Jerry Hall) James (With Jerry Hall) Georgia (with Jerry Hall) Gabriel (with Jerry Hall) Lucas (with Luciana Gimenez Morad)
Not sure about Mick, thought he had 4, 3 of which are Jerry Halls. I think it is funny but quite sad too that the joke is smug and therefore the kind of joke that makes the stigma of leaving someone a price your children also have to pay. I was 1 of 3 x 2 so not sure exactly what I'm laughing at anyway!.
well said dara things like this make me want to avoid MN at times because I can't believe people with these views havany place on a site predominantly for women
Read Dr. Tanya Byron's NEW report on Children and Television, her advice on how to provide a balanced TV diet for your children in the Freeview Viewtrition Guide and enter our competition to win a top of the range Freeview+ digital TV recorder, worth £229.95
lovely to see you 
. I don't disapprove of or condemn UJ or her choices. If I heard that gag down the pub I would laugh. And it's not the 4x4 joke that will hurt her DC's, it is the fact that their mum is being joked about by the general public and in the press where they can read it. But the joke is in the press because UJ has chosen to use the media in the past and, in this case, to draw attention to her 4th pregnancy - possibly for sound financial reasons. possibly to get back at the media - but nevertheless this thrusts her and by default her DC's into the public eye (again).
