bet they dont hsvbe to pretend they need a number 2 to escape to the bathroom for ten minutespeace eiether
<sigh>

'christmas morning just feels WRONG when there are no children'

That's because there is no such thing as Christmas morning before you have children. You can have a luxurious lie-in because there is no-one to wake you up at 5am demanding to know whether Father Christmas has been.

Last Christmas (my son was born in March) we woke up at midday, had a champagne breakfast, watched Gone with the Wind in our pyjamas, opened our presents around 4pm and had our Xmas meal about 7pm. That will probably never happen again until I am in my fifties

I went to sil's house yesterday who has 4 under 8 and her house looked like this!

Also agree with Communion. I like to think that our house is a bit like that. I read a lot so there are lots of books and DH is arty so lots of bits around that he likes the look of. We don't have a great deal of cash so furniture is mish mash of some nice old restored bits and some retro stuff. You can pick up furniture like that cheaply here in France.

My sister's house is calm oasis of cream and white bed linen and towels (she only has one DS though). I love staying there but wouldn't actually like a house like that. Lovely sister says exactly the same about my place.

Both of us miss lie-ins and do furtive eating so seems there is no escaping those aspects of family life.

lol sallystrawberry, Yes I've noticed that though it is difficult to have uninterrupted conversation with anyone when there are kids around - but with child-free friends it's virtually impossible! I think when you have children you develop the art of getting the conversation in somehow, whereas child-free people seem incapable of multi-tasking in that same way!

Usually, dd will make a beeline for the friend and then of course if I try to start saying anything next thing you know friend turns away and says "Ooh, that's nice, when did you make that?...ok, i'll come and have a look ..." and then get up, shrug apologetically over at me and disappear with dd into her room.
Though I'd rather that than my friends ignore dd!

The best I can manage if dd allows is this skill of sort of saying "So, I've been feeling like I should x,y,z - yes, you can have another biscuit - but what so-and-so thinks is this, that & the other - no, don't touch that, dd - But you know what, the other day I saw such-and-such, she's split up with so-and-so - Yes dd? - hold on a second - well, go and wash your hands then - yeah, so, they've split up!"

Though it usually culminates with me saying exasperatedly "dd, just WAIT A MINUTE, I'm trying to talk to X!" and "What was I saying? Oh, I've forgotten!"

Meanwhile my friend is looking rather confused and a bit amused.

I have childfree friends with a lovely childfree tidy house and a coffee table , but it is homely, no white carpets, although the sofas are white.

Whenever I take dd round my friend gets out her art stuff (shes an art therapist) and gets dd doing artwork on the conservatory floor, she gets totally immersed in playing with dd and has no time for any conversation with me - how pathetic am I I sit there drinking my coffee and making "aww" and "very good" noises about whatever it is they are drawing at the time .

Oh to have a coffee table and sex in the middle of the day without constant interruptions and knocks on the door with me replying "theres chocolate in the pantry at the top behind the big saucepan ask your big brother to go and get it!"

My sister is child free. We have never been invited over since we had children. She has cream carpets, sofas and i suspect magnolia lifestyle [slightly bitter about the unwelcome vibes]. I am proud of our lived in home.

Will be cleaning the windows as have a houseful of people visiting later this week.

In the last 36 hours my DS1 has broken one of my wedding wineglasses and my beautiful vintage butter dish and I feel so sad.

I really miss lie ins. (Had one this morning - 7.40am!)

And the cinema.

And just popping out for a game of pool with DH.

Think will get a lodger... then they can babysit while I go to the cinema etc...

am reading this thread (LOL) in my cream living room with a previously cream carpet and sofa - we use washable throws over everything and chuck everything into baskets at the end of the day.

I agree re the soulessness of totally cream minimalism - my thing is how many homes seem to have NO BOOKS around and about - I get unnerved when there are no books at all about...

DS is 2 and is probably tidier than me - I am convinced that the nursery think I use him as a mini cleaner becasue he spends so much time offering to help tidy up (bless)

Totally agree with what Communion said. And I would be chuffed to bits if someone described our house like that

Mine's on a shelf out of reach!

I can't even maintain a pile of paperwork anywhere, ds2 finds it and eats it

Lynette - systematic - set aside a time to go through each piece one by one and chuck (don't be tempted to keep newsletters etc in case you get round to reading them!) or file. Then make sure you sort it either as it comes in (easily done if it's just junk mail) or once a week. Also, have one of those box file thingies (open one that goes on a shelf, iykwim) to stick em in, or a letter holder. That way it's got a place till filed, rather than cluttering up a surface.

Have to say, my paperwork has been left untouched all summer - i normally do it while dd is at school!

I just thought, I have flowers on the dining table - dp keeps buying them for me. Also a few nice candles (also from dp!) but they tend to be surrounded by baby wipes, half-empty cups, bits of food, playmobil, dd's drawings or cards...etc!

Can anyone tell me how to get rid of the pile of paper work in the kitchen.............without dumping it in the dining room?

We have flowers on a dining table, I like to think its clean although during the day there are toys everywhere. Our downfall is the toddler snot and dog pawe smudged windows.... and a pile of paperwork in the kitchen.

I went to visit friends this weekend whose house was quite cluttered with photos, pictures, paintings, books objects from thier travels, inherited pieces of furniture, musical intruments and things they had made.

There was so much to talk about just looking at thier stuff.

The furnitute didn't match.

Nothing was deisgned.

The kitchen was full of open sheleves stuffed with intersting foof stuff.

It was such a relaxed interesting house, so full of character, welcoming and refletive of them.

It was cleanish and tidyish.

Made me think we have really lost the plot with our aspiration to clinical white and cream show homes that look good in photos but feel essentially quite souless.

I am now aspiring to a realxed,informal house that reflets my interests and interesting life.

Now I just ned to get an intersting life.

But you can keep your cream carpets, sofas and perfect tidiness, I do actaully think it represents a lack of someting somehow.

lupo - get ds to help you! We have tidy up time either before or after tea and dd has to help otherwise I get Very Cross. I couldn't cope with the living room being untidy (as in, toys everywhere) in the evenings either. Squeaky clean is another matter!

Got to say, my house a bit like that. DS is 4 and does spread lego all over the floor and gets his toys out, but when he's gone to bed I always have to tidy it away..I thinK i am a bit anal about it tbh

we also have new cream kitchen, glass tables, cream stone floor, cream carpets, gorgeous voile length curtains to the floor and wall mounted plasma..I am shocked that somehow he hasnt broken anything, he is pretty bositerous and runs around alot..so must just be luck.

I do like a nice immaculate looking home and end up tidying up alot --not to the neglect of ds though as I do loads with him.

If anything did get broken or damaged I wouldnt worry too much, at the end of the day everthings insured..and you have to except nice stuff to get damaged. There's nothing wrong with being house proud as long as your kids can still play freeley, it teaches them to respect things in the home. Though must say if i worked full time, my house would probably be a tip!

ok i am SO depressed now! My house is not AT ALL like the op but it NEEDS TO BE cos we are putting it on the market soon. I am actually sinking into a deep depression thinking of the impossible task of creating a SHOW HOME type house. (DC's are 3y, 2y and 4mths- EEK)

There are little hand prints over all the cream walls and glass, there is crayon/pen over areas of wall and the coffee table. The kitchen floor is vile. Everything is sticky and there is clutter everywhere. The sofas are ruined by the next door neighbour's cat using them as a scratching post!

sigh!

at mrsb's reminder of what christmas is like with no children

<<feels utterly depressed>>

Pippy - my DH is one of the use it drop it culprits in my house too!
What gets me is the length of time it takes to tidy means there's no actual time left to clean - so i am left with an occasionally tidy but basically grubby household.
As for the 'count yourself lucky you've got kids' etc - yes I do count myself lucky, esp as struggling ttc again at mo; nevertheless its still good to have a moan every now and again!

Never had an immaculate house before kids - it was cleanish and tidyish but not obsessional. I have a cream carpet but managed to keep it pretty much that way. Odd spillage but I have a no lids off drinks rule in the lounge

I too eat my secret stash with fridge door open. DS is only 2 and at my waist height so if he's pre-occupied doesn't always spot what I'm up too ! I didn't realise we were all at it ! Unfortunately ds insists on wandering into the loo with me so there's not a hope of that being my secret eating location....

I don't see it as moaning per say, just a 'how the other half live' kinda thing. I get embarassed (sp?) when my BIL comes over as his house is soooo tidy and white and cream and beautiful (could be in a magazine) and our house is caos, but I love my life and we can all 'moan' about all the washing up/stair gates/sleepless nights/not being able to go to the toilet by ourselves etc (and I;m one of the worse for it!!!! But I think (well I hope) we are all horribly aware that the alternative would be worse!

I know Jodie, I don't understand all this moaning

I'm sooo glad I'm not hte only one whos who eats in the bathroom or climbsinto the fridge

Think it is sad to say christmas morning is wrong when there are no children.

My cousin and his wife are desperate to have kids, but so far no joy - after 15 years of trying and 3 IVF attempts. If she read this she would no doubt be gutted. She waould swap her cram carpets and coffee tables in a heartbeat.

It's the fact that DH has seemed to join in with the mess that I begrudge!

My house is like the OP, aside from coffee table (naffo imo).

I know MrsRuffallo and I wouldn't have it any other way

All that perfection would wear off though.
You can have a tidy house in aboyt ten years, but your lo's will never be this age again

So at what age - (if ever) do kids stop just dropping things on the floor?

I find they have such a short attention span it like - Oh yes drink, drop it to go and play, drop toy and get book, drop book pick up lego, scatter lego everywhere, knock drink over that I have picked up from leaking on floor, throw all the cushions on floor, wander off into next room to start all over again - it's busy work being little!

My house looks like a bomb has hit it from about 10 min after the kids get up until 10 min after they have gone to bed. then it looks vaguley passable but not ever really clean.

PML as the comments on here, I personally didn't live the whole 'clean house' life style before, but do miss being able to sleep through a hangover (when the opportunity comes about to have a few drinks without thinking 'I've got to get up in the morning')

My bug bear, if you can call it that, is the stair gates! I can't wait until I can navigate the stairs without having put down what I'm carrying to open/close the bloody things!!

Well, as Alfie Kohn says, "When you come right down to it, the whole process of raising kids is pretty damned inconvenient, particularly if you want to do it well. If you're unwilling to give up any of your free time, if you want your house to stay clean and quiet, you might consider raising tropical fish instead."

we have trainer toilet seats in eac of our bathrooms.

i long for the day when they magically disappear again

I saw the scariest thing ever yesterday. Went to the house of a friend with a 2 and 4 yr old and 4 week old baby. It was spotless, cream carpets, the lot. I wanted to rescue those poor kids immediately. Imagine being a toddler in clinical surroundings like that. EEK!

LOL this thread has made me laugh.

We have friends who don't have a cream carpet but have an immaculate house with 'objaaaaaays' dotted tastefully around. They also have a maaaahoooosive tv which is his pride and joy <sniggers>. They are expecting their first (much wanted) baby at the end of the year and are busy repainting the house top to bottom in preparation (lots of beautiful white woodwork <barely contained chortle>. Because I love them dearly I won't be churlish but just to say... things will change...oh yes...thing will change.

I remember when before kids we used to have lie-ins at the weekend and felt annoyed when neighbours children were being noisy in the garden at 10 am - it seemed ridiculously early for them to be out playing.... of course mine now all wake at 6.30! I am now amazed that their parents were able to keep them indoors and quiet for so long!

Whenever the mess gets me down I try to remember the poem I learned at school, which roughly translated goes:

There was jam on the door handle... but I swallowed back the cross words which were welling up inside me because I thought of the day when the handle would be clean and the little hand would be gone.

I lived like that for 10yrs with ds and his endless mates and it was hard work but we were buying and selling houses so had to keep constantly spotless for viewings and photos.Now we are renting we have realised what we were missing and live an a pigsty most of the time

We used to have a house a bit like you describe, and to be honest are still coming to terms with the fact it is disappearing.

Cream carpet in the living room is filthy, stinks from being damp all the time where beakers of water spilt

Posh sofa has snot streaks on it

Curtains for french doors covered in grubby handprints

Hallway scuffed from buggy etc etc

But the lack of lie-ins is the absolute worst. I can't imagine how I am surviving on so little sleep.

But we spent 4 years trying for this, as I keep having to remind myself.....

Love the sneaky eating by the way. Cake in the toilet really made me laugh. I usually sneak into the fridge!!!

I remember a time when getting up at 8 was obscenely early, and I would roll over ang go back to sleep for at least 2 hours. now it's what passes for a lie in [sigh]

any church i set foot in would probably burn down, mp .

expat

I once spent Boxing Day with about 26 nuns all aged over 70

I'm SO GLAD I had chlidren for christmas day if nothing else

Very charitable of you morningpaper!

pippylongstockings - everything takes longer. I couldn't believe it when I went shopping one day without dd, I had several different shops to go to, etc, expected to be stressed and unfinished by the time babysitting time was over, but i was done in an hour and i was like, wow!

I too hide behind cupboard doors!

my divorce and the last recession in the US took care of that, mp!

like i always say, when times are good, ride that wave as long as you can, baby!

expat did having children set fire to all your cash? Christmas with chalets, hot springs and champagne?!?!?

I used to work for Crisis and de-louse homeless people to avoid drinking sherry with relatives and listening to ticking clocks

Loving all the secret noshing confessions - I too nibble behind open kitchen cupboards - although my son has dog like ears and pipes up 'what you doing mummy? what you got ?' I swear he can smell the chocolate on my breath!

I spend what seems like hours just doing the most trivial tasks - just washing up seems to take hours because you have to hunt the whole house to find all the plates, cups bowls, spoons etc.

xmas without kids is fab, you can always visit other peoples kds to get your fix then go home! last pre kids xmas we stayed inbed til hangover went then ate lots then got pissed with mates bloody brilliant

I ate crisps under a duvet today so DD would not hear.

My flat is actually kept to a better standard with three kids in it than when DH and I lived together BC - we were slobs!

You will have immaculate houses for one year after your children leave home. Then they will start bringing grandchildren to stay on the assumption that you adore noise and mess

I ate crisps under a duvet today so DD would not hear.

My flat is actually kept to a better standard with three kids in it than when DH and I lived together BC - we were slobs!

You will have immaculate houses for one year after your children leave home. Then they will start bringing grandchildren to stay on the assumption that you adore noise and mess

exactly, puppy!

same here.

Xmas day without kids was brilliant!

we went on swanky holidays to hot springs, met up with my folks or his folks and his childfree brother for holidays in the sun or skiing trips.

swilled champers or mulled wine, ate gorgeous food, bought each other lavish gifts, etc.

had lie ins till at least 10AM.

woke up to clean, lovely home or self-catering or chalet.

Orm - precisely why I'm so jealous!

My house was never like that before kids.
And probably won't be after.
Like Orm I have untidy, horder DH. And not exactly a neat freak myself

I often wonder what I did with all my time pre DD. I think I spent a lot of time recovering from hangovers

Hmm. Have never had a house like that. dd just a handy excuse for generally slightly untidy house...

No, no, no....christmas day without kids is crap. As a childless adult you can indulge yourself in champagne and morning sex any day of the year. Where's the big deal?

no no no dd made christmas come alive and feel magic again, i had got bored of it before she came along!

I must say, I'm in the "Christmas Day sounds blardy fantastic without kids" camp here.

I have friends at work who have no kids. And they can stay in bed all weekend watching box sets of Prison Break and Lost in one go.

I work p/t and the other day on my day off I emailed work from home about summat. And my colleague (one of the above) replied incredulous saying: "What are you doing up at this time?" It was 8.10am. She just had no idea why I would not be lying in...

I don't miss all that. I k now I'll have it again one day and I think when the time comes I'll sometimes feel just a tiny bit wistful for the hectic days.

oh those lie ins! <<wistful sigh>>
I lived for those - no, survived on those lie ins...

Funny thing is, apart from them, it is the drunken nights out socialising that I took longest to get over (i mean, stop missing) when I had dd, but it is the one thing i'd least like to go back to now!

dh and i were like that
we went skiing, and to greece every year
we had a sports car- it was great
we had people over for sunday lunch and then they'd stay till midnight.
we'd lie in at weekends and lie in bed drinking tea and reading the paper.
we would go to the cinema on a sunday afternoon and then a walk on the south bank


and now we have little fellas crawling all ovr us and snotty noses and tantrums!

dunno what's better really

'When our children are grown up and moved out and we have immaculate homes again, we'll miss all the noise and mess and chaos. We'll look back fondly.'

No, no I won't. I'll treasure it even more.

'christmas morning just feels WRONG when there are no children'

No it doesn't when you wake up a sunny, warm blue sky and a champagne breakfast before heading for the beach or golf course or a big fry up before hitting hte slopes.

'When our children are grown up and moved out and we have immaculate homes again, we'll miss all the noise and mess and chaos. We'll look back fondly. '

so true Lyra. I keep reminding dh of that and he gets all maudlin!

<sigh>

V V envious of people like that.

Sadly I fear that our house will not be like that even when there are no children. DH is a scruffy hoarder. I will only have a house like that when there is also no DH

Cool thread. Echo Mrs Badger's comments.

The kids and hubby went to his parents for lunch today sop I had about 5 hours on m y own. The house was so tidy upto about 10 minutes after they came home!

NatalieJane it was the Sunday morning sex that got you into this position in the first place.

I remember someone telling me that her house would never look like mine even when she had children. Ah the naivete! I went round to hers recently. She has one child. He'd give my DTs a run for their (let's make a mess) money!

lol @ christmas morning

christmas morning just feels WRONG when there are no children

Like finding yourself at Legoland on your honeymoon

<sigh> my friends house is immaculate. She anxiously hoovers round my baby as baby lies on her beautiful (pee and sick free) woollen rug when we visit.

When our children are grown up and moved out and we have immaculate homes again, we'll miss all the noise and mess and chaos. We'll look back fondly.

We stayed with our friends over the bank holiday
They have the most beautiful white flat as though they live in "living etc" magazine
However they are the most lovely insanely beautiful and stylish people you could ever meet
We had to agree Dh and I that even sans children we still wouldn't come close to owning Missoni towels etc etc
I did ponder a sideways life for a while though and then reimmersed myself in Not now Bernard and trying not to watch Happy Feet again

Err...my childless friends' houses aren't anything like you describe! But I do envy all the other stuff though.
The only noticeable thing to me about their houses is breakable or dangerous objects at low heights.
I remember when i was pg hanging out with a friend who is a nanny (and the children), i put my cup of tea on the floor next to the sofa and she immediately whipped it up laughing saying "Ha ha, you won't be doing that for much longer!"

Just imagine...soap without great chunks gouged out of it or without tractor tyre marks through it....luxury!

We had frends with a gleaming apartment. It was all white with touches of black, and all co-ordinated, CDs and DVDs were arranged in order, the laptop was all shiny white on a table ready for us, the table was all set nice all the time, everything sparkly and clean.

When we took DD there I was always one de, just in case. They were fine with DD being there, but I was scared she'd leave fingerprints everywhere.

Sadly their relationship didn't last. We still see one half of the couple, who does still have an immaculate apartment, just he is not so OTT with it alll now.

my childless friends are the same age as me
they go away for weekends abroad spontaneously
they go to music festivals
they have fast 2 seater cars
they drink Pimms in the garden on a summer's evening and don't worry about bath and bedtime
they have long lie ins
they stay up til 4am and sleep in til lunchtime

I am so !!!
I know at least 2 of these couples are ttc and tbh I'll be glad when they have dcs so I can stop feeling jealous!!

you can only eat icecream with the kids in a buggy for another few months

that's only a shortterm thing

in a year or two they will be able to hear chocolate being consumed IN ANOTHER ROOM

my sister has one teenage and one pre-teen daughter.

her furniture has lovely upholstery, she's got curtains to drop the floor and clean shutters. they have dinner parties and the kids amuse themselves whilst they entertain.

they even go out for an evening and the 14-year-old stays home with the 12-year-old.

gosh, well, just gosh.
<riven surveys the chaos that is her home>
sigh

My MILs house is like this, but she is a childminder! I actually prefer a BIT of mess arund. Not loads, but enough to make it a home and feel confortable. In somebodys house that is a bit too nice, I was constantly worrying that I will make a mark on something or mess something up.

put mine for a nap. thought... shall i tidy... or read sunday papers and drink caffeine filled liquid..

stuff tidying. they'll only trash it as soon as they wake.

i had to wake dp up at 4am this morning just to have uninterupted sex. then he asked "did you have a bad dream?" after

I bet they didn't have a huge pile of assorted shoes by the door either

Same here, I hide in the kitchen and guzzle my secret fix of Pepsi Max. I then conceal it behind things until I need another sip.

<surveys crap all over living room floor, and longs for oasis of calm>

did they have a bathroom with beautiful clean fluffy towels neatly folded? and colour co-ordinared expensive toiletries in glass bottles? and scented candles ? and clean shiny surfaces?

sigh

guitargirl, I too have learnt that trick

I have started eaing ice-cream when out and about and making sure the hood is up on DD's buggy so she can't twist round and spot me . Bless her.

i ate a cake in the toilet this morning so no little people could spot me then start begging and moaning for some

dh and ds have been away for the weekend. i have been home alone, well out and about really. the house is exactly as it was when the cleaner left friday, one cup and glass in dish washer.

this morning i read the papers in bed and then went and de cluttered and re arranged a few things. by not having to clear up the daily mess i have actually made things look ten times better. they arrive in 2 hours, will just sit and look at my handy work before chaos ensues. sigh.

I went to stay with friends for a weekend, ok for half a day, then so boring, nothing to do, no tidying up to do, sat there all sunday watching crap on the telly, no reason to go to the opark or do anything.

on christmas morning they will lie in till 9am and then have champagne and pain au chocolat in bed in aforementioned blissful silence

then they will put lovely grown-up music on and potter round cooking a lovely indulgent lunch for two with lobster or oysters to start

then watch a film in the afternoon

there will be no rictus grins, no batteries and no tears all day.

I hate them too

they get to eat cake in peace.

yes-but christmas morning-just think.....

What you need is one of those nauseating fridge magnets or signs to put up in your kitchen about how a home without children/dog mess in the hallway/whatever is like living in a gulag. That'll remind you how LUCKY you are.

oh no they have conversations

and friends

and do you know what i bet they ghave moment of aching quiet when they have no reason to do anything and it is all quite depressing.
can you imagine their home on christmas morning-god the painful silence....

I was thinking about this yesterday as I had just finished tidying the kitchen to a reasonable standard (never really spotless, it never looks like that anymore!) and then DD toddles in and starts pulling all the recycling out of the cupboards whilst simulanteously dropping raisins on the floor...BUT I have a friends WITH children whose house is as you describe your friends' house. There's something unnatural about that. I would not like to live in a house (with kids) which looks as though no child lives there...

When we move on next, I am giving up Childminding,

DGd is now living back with Mum,

Ds & DDIL have no children to bring and mess up my house, so we WILL have a house you so describe .

It will have only taken me 30 years to get it

they can have mine

they want kids though

i remember those days.

i had a coffee table once.

havent had one since dd1 was born.

it also used to take 10mins to tidy each room.

[sighs]

at 6pm the day just pondered seamlessly on

they weren't thinking about what time bedtime was and what time they needed to eat and if any dc were going to fall asleep in the car and ruin the evening

they just went on with their day, as if time was of no importance

Bet they get to have sex on Sunday mornings as well without a little face appearing round the door and .

Can you tell I'm not over this yet?

My sisters houses are like this.

Acres of cream carpet

Beautiful flowers

Gorgeous china

Lovely hand soap

Unmarked cream paintwork

<< sigh >>

it was like an oasis of calm

it was all grown up and there were fresh flowers in vases at coffee table height

and there was carpet (we can't have carpet because of dd1's walking frame, no 'shoes at the door' for us because her wheels are unwipeable and covered in crud)

there was a little table with a laptop on and some lovely stationery



it looked like to clean it you would just need to wander around with a feather duster and run a vac round

you wouldn't have to move a load of shite and then pry up squashed raisins

I came home quite depressed