I am still rereading it and being so that everything is wrong

he was making it up

quite often Elinor says something very definite to someone in the TV version which is the complete opposite of what she says in the book

That crossed my mind too. Of course the kid might look like that in real life .

If he does - he's clearly Archie from Ballamory's son.

OK--I still have one pressing questions.

Sir John Ferrar's little boy (ie, step-nephew of Marianne and Elinor), glimpsed briefly in the first episode and last episode. If that were your son, would you have let them do him up like that? I mean the OTT red hair and looking very fat and twittish?

It wasn't bad, it just wasn't very Austen. I guess they are perfectly entitled to take a plot and film it how they wish but since Austen has such a unique tone, it just felt rather odd.

that is a very lovely cottage cod...

Message withdrawn

strike translation from Latvian.
'can totally imagine what you mean.'

that's interesting pp. Not seen it but can totally imaging what you mean...

Sorry to join at this late stage, but my problem with the KK version (apart from MMF looking as though he had a ghastly stomach ache all the way through) is that it was JA as filmed by Charlotte Bronte, terribly intense and romantic. Disappointing, very.

really, surrounded?

they're all a bit odd, though, aren't they, actors?

I mean they've always been odd obv but I do think are odder now than in my youth.

ruty - she's on here, of course, as are we all.

kk and rf an item, apparently.

What do you do in the evenings onebat? [Don't tell me you're having sex or something equally outrageous]

Ruty nor I for at least a year. Have started several but fell at first hurdle. Apart from 'Pass Your Driving Theory".

So that's no films. Bugger all TV. No books.

Where does the time go, I wonder?

Unless you count Dig Dig Digger amd The Whale and the Snail....

it was bbc2 or 4 - the only channels i watch of course.
Thing is onebat i haven't read a book for, um, at least two years.

This one, Onebatmother.

I didn't manage to watch Wide Sargasso Sea, but it pretty much followed on from the Jane Eyre, I seem to remember, but possibly only on one of the BBC digital channels?

Agree about Rupert's name - slightly strange.

bloody hell Wide Sargasso Sea? I really should watch tv more. Or are these all cinema?

He and Keira look uncannily similar JackieNo...

gosh
didn't see it tho.
Is it just me or is his name.. weird?
Like Rupert Bear, no?

what i didn't like about the recent Jane Eyre was it lacked any real menace or darkness...it was all rather tame and Jane was so utterly sensible, you didn't really get a sense of any underlying darkness or passion or anger anywhere. Loved the recent adaption of Wide Sargasso Sea..that was beautifully done and spine shivering.

I can't make the link work either, but according to IMDB, it's him. Looks v pretty.

lol head shaped like a box!
Useful, though, for trinkets?
Can't make Wickham link work on my craptop.

how did he get the part?

I quite like M McFad as Darcy but he was a leetle bit wet and also has an enormous head shaped like a box. Also one of those men who is attractive until he smiles and when that happens you want to run and hide from him.
KK was good in some ways, properly sassy like EB should be. But what's with that awful greasy fringe? Not good imho.
But the worst crime in the KK version is

WICKHAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh lord preserve us from the horror of a block of wood who can't act given a part where we are supposed to believe it plausible that Lizzie would find him more sexy and charismatic than Darcy. A chair would have had more sex appeal than that muppet.

oh yes, had forgotten that JN - perfect OW/

So - what other central dilemmas/plot devices/come-uppances don't work any more?

I quite like the Oscar Wilde quote that "One would have to have a heart of stone to read the death of Little Nell without laughing." - it just doesn't really work any more, does it.

But that lass from playing the field, Cranford and Lark rise was fab in the KK version wasn't she?

oo, no KK version is in my cupboard for completeness (I am a tidy geek) but I really didn't like it. I grant you Mrs Bennett was better, but Mr Bennett had no spark, and Matthew McFadyen didn't come across as a man who could appear proud, he was just wet.

And I actually found myself, in some moments, thinking I wouldn't mind marrying Mr Collins, and that's just wrong.

Ooh, janeite, I came over all unnecessary!

Gorgeous!

<swoons in a hopeful way, waiting for Matthew McFadyen to come masterfully to the rescue...>

But I did think Benjamin Whitrow was the best Mr Bennet, still a few niggles, but at least I wasn't shouting at the screen unlike in the KK one.

And David Bamber as he oozed across the screen as the servile and sanctimonious Mr Collins was just sublime!

Much sexier than Colin Firth imho -

www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0414387/Ss/0414387/iid_945741.jpg.html?hint=group

Little Nell dying - hadn't read the book (my mistake - although i'd tried several times to get through it) and couldn't cope with the ending of the grandfather being okay after what he'd put her through. I like a nice tidy moralistic ending even though life isn't like that.

I quite liked the way the KK P&P was full of mud and smelly dogs and chickens etc. It seemed a bit more real.


Also quite liked the lack of kiss at the end.

yes turquoise, Brenda Blethyn is the intelligent director's Alison Steadman I think.

I fell asleep waiting for Little Nell to die...

Still haven't seen the KK P&P - will be making an effort to find it now, as a result of this thread. Though I did quite enjoy the colin Firth one, though not particularly because of Colin Firth. Loved Bleak House - whatsername, Mulder or Scully, was a complete revelation. Did anyone watch the Old Curiosity Shop over Christmas? I did, but was very disappointed with it - unrelenting doom and gloom.

I liked the KK version - except that they persisted in dressing her as Jane Eyre and putting her into a Wuthering Heights landscape.

I must see different real life people then, as everybody I have spoken to about it loved it! I thought it smouldered, unlike the Colin Firth one, which merely simpered!

A vote for Tom Hardy as Bill Sikes in Oliver Twist over Christmas - thought he was amazing in the part.

Janeite - I've given up trying to tell anyone in RL that I loved the recent P & P film, preferring it to Colin Firth et al - judging by people's reactions, I seem to be saying 'Oh, and I torture puppies as a hobby, you know.'

Harold Pinter was very odd in that Mansfield Park film. He just did his 'The Caretaker' malevolent thing. Couldn't bring myself to see Keira in P&P, sorry. And Reese Witherspoon looked rather lost in Vanity Fair. As did most of the cast actually.

I SO agree about Alison Steadman, can't bear her, ghastly ghastly ghastly just does Abigail's party whatever she's in. Her caricature in the CF P&P ruined it for me, whereas I thought Brenda Blethyn (is that who it was in the KK version?) made Mrs B real and totally believable.

I still think David Rintoul was the definitive Darcy for me though. Loved that version.

Wives and Daughters about 4 years ago was excellent. And Bleak House best thing in years.

Surroundedby - oh yes, the Colin Firth P&P is awful - in fact, by definition, I've decided that anything with Alison Steadman in is automatically awful. But I am one of few (it seems) who absolutely loved the Kiera Knightley version, except Mr Bennet's teeth.

I watched the Reese Witherspoon Vanity Fair a few weeks ago. Was OK, but she was a bit lacklustre, and just not bad enough for my liking.

agreed SBS on the Elizabeth Garvie P/P - God that was a very long time ago wasn't it.

Have we had any Thackeray recently? I would love a bit of Vanity Fair.
Or Eliot (George)?
Actually a bit of Hardy mightn't go amiss.

<takes cover>

Heated - thoroughly agree about CH and Amanda Root version of 'Persuasion'. Also Precious Bane with J McTeer. Am really showing my age.

And of course the Elizabeth Garvie / David Rintoul P&P was infinitely superior to the overblown Colin Firth version ...

OMG joss I am hotfooting it to the MN costume drama thread!

(for future ref - we NEED an MN musical, don't you think?)

the Wuthering juliette binoche was (pause for OBM to gather her favourite adjectives) ^UTTERLY LUDICROUS^

So it appears I've not missed a huge amount then, adaptation wise?

I really liked the recent Jane Eyre but then I'm not a Bronte-freak in the way that I am a Janeite, so my expectations were probably lower. I loved the guy who played Mr Rochester.

North & South - i loved!

(agree about the swoony hero) - whatever posessed the BBC to cast an ugly spud as a goody against him in Robin Hodd i'll never know - BIG mistake.

Back to Poe - has anyone ever attempted it?

Wouldn't like to see a 'dark' Tim Burton type production of a story though. also - i'm sure some could be updated (evil grin smog - evil grin).

I don't think there is a good Wuthering Heights/Quivering Thighs film.

Persuasion with Ciaron Hinds, as I mentioned before, is very good.

Not quite the right era, but BBC's North & South, by gum it's grim up north, had a swoony brooding hero & a notable cast.

And again, set earlier, but has anyone seen a young Janet McTeer in Precious Bane?

btw have posted in 'chat' re: the possibility of a MN costume drama.

and then of course Cliff Richard took it upon himself to play Heathcliff [shudder]

That one passed me by.

Should i be grateful???

Ah yes, "Heeth-cliff", spoken in a strong French accent

oh yes and apparently there was a film of Wuthering Heights a while back with Juliette Binoche as Cathy....

Jane Eyre last year - quite good i thought - suitably steamy in a 'suppressed passion' type way.

Wildfell Hall - God i bet that was actually yonks ago!

You're right - not much Bronte at all actually.

Maybe we're due a 'Wuthering'?

There was an awful Wuthering Heights about ten years ago. The recent Jane Eyre [Toby Stephens as Rochester] was well received but left me cold. The Tenant of Wildfell Hall was quite good as I recall with Tara Fitzgerald in the lead. Probably about ten years ago too.

this is genuine - really have no idea..
which Bronte adaptations in the last 10 years?

Agree Ruty.

the recent adaptation of Bleak House was superfabulous though I though.

but there were a couple of other goodies by Mary Braddon IIRR

Got awful feeling it's all been done though, while I've been looking away?

Some Wilkie Collins! Again!

And since we're on the Sensationalists, what about Lady Audley's Secret by Mary Braddon?

I thought Col Brandon's valet ought to be dismissed forthwith. His master was still wearing the waistcoat slashed in the duel with Willougby some weeks later (presumably that was what we were meant to be reminded of) when he carried in a rather sodden & feverish Marianne & his cravats were tied rather poorly too. Not a prodigiously smart beau at all.

OH Poe! That's a good idea!
Also some of the Frenchies, no? will think.

And what about SOME FREAKIN' GEORGETTE HEYER while we're here.

Seriously. Can't imagine better costume drama.

For costume dramas i guess you've got your Cranforths, Ruby Smokey North and that thing about the Post Office.

As for adaptions of decent novels Hmmmmmmm

mmmmmmmmm

mmmmmmmmm

Nope! Can't think of anything atm.

Some Poe perhaps?

Well, I liked it...

Haven't read the most recent posts, re: last night's episode but will catch up on it later. I thought it was dreadful - utterly devoid of passion. I was even thinking, "Oh dear, Marianne's dying - who cares? Let her - it might inject a bit of feeling into the whole sorry proceedings" - complete waste of time, money, effort and hats.

So What's Next, JS?
there must be some hidden gems that we've forgotten..

I think Roxy has a point. We (the GP) probably need a break form Austen / Bronte et al. They've been done to death in recent years.

I liked Elinors hair..

Well, I feel cheated.

I sat down three weeks ago, saying 'I will not make negative comparisons with Ang Lee film (which I adore with a passion) before I've even given this a chance.'

So I gave it a chance. And look what happened - a ridiculously ineptly acted interpretation of not the novel, but Emma Thompson's screenplay! Sticking the duel and Willoughby's visit to Cleveland in to fill up the extra hour does not make it original, Andrew Davies!

I ended up brooding over why Elinor's hair was so rubbish compared to Marianne's and what that little hole was for in the back of Brandon's waistcoat - possibly not what I was meant to be thinking about during the dramatic final episode!

But it did inspire me to watch the film again to fall in love with the story all over again so that's a bonus.

just make sure they are accredited Kerry, for goodness' sake!
Then, if they don't do a good job testing your propriety (not replacing batteries for example, or offering a short screw when a long one is required) you can report them, and have them struck off.

Sorry everyone. Don't know what's wrong with me. Think it's a sense of thwart, at last night's debacle.

have to admit some of the Irish tradesmen round here are quite toothsome.

Rusty don't be ler-yude-icrous. I always get references before employing any tradesmen. Goodness!

i meant PRIDE AND PREDGE

Also now is maybe a good time, if you're forced to sit, which I know has been a 'mare. No pleasure in sitting if you still have to do normal life though, really, is there? So strike that.

I would have thought you could test your sense of propriety on any passing tradesman...

PRIDE AND PREDJ Kerry, without a sliver of a doubt.

<sigh>. I suspect you speak for many of us.
I am feeling quite.. Elinor-ish at the mo. Actually more a sense of miasmic longing - a bit more Gothic, if you like, than Comedy of Manners.

yes, cast off Friday. A bit early I thought but ortho says okay It WAS okay until he started twisting and turning and bending it [agony]. Still can't put any weight on it though....

So which book should I read first?

It saves me from one form of heartache and gives me another.

Iknow you are right Sue. I just can't remember what its purpose is.

Mine hasn't been tested, in any case, for a v long time. Is it like a smoke alarm, regular testing vital? If so, is there a tradesman one can pay to come and test one's sense of propriety?

deja vu: also known as 'derivative filmic plagiarism and lack of original imagination and wit'

LIZS you are so right about Catherine De Bourgh! That'sense of deja vu's been really bugging me, couldn't work out why...

So many senses of deja vu. Is my summing up.

|I fear I am too firmly wedded to mine. It has its purpose, you know.

i'm hoping to cast off my sense of propriety Sue. Care to join me?

yes Kerry has recently cast off her foot! She's got such a devil-may-care attitude!

<big bang and tinkling of glass/thudding of mooncups, as MN implodes following Kerry's admission>

(psst - how's foot, Kerry? cast off yesterday wasn't it? or am i miles out of date)

do you know I don't think I've ever read any of her books!

It was much an adaptation of the film adaptation(and other Austen adaptations Lady Catherine de Bourgh playing Mrs Ferrars anyone? ) with a few episiodes of spelling it out (no duel or overheard Elinor/Willoughby conforntattion as I recall) and then glossing over details such as Marianne walking towards Willoughby's house. Disappointing and dumbed down

I did wonder whether I'd seen Marianne and Edward's house at the end somewhere in Cranford. Or was it just that we'd seen it earlier in S&S?

I've watched too many fancy-dress series recently. They're all starting to merge in my mind.

the wild bird tamed stuff was truly toe curling - and I can't remember but really can't believe that Jane Austen would put anything as crass as wild horse taming analogies in Elinor's mouth. Yuckety yuck.

And I do so like to see the baddies punished, JA usually offers up bittersuit justice, but where was it?

Actually I did like the Miss Steels, comic but coarsely awful at the same time, which is how I imagined them.

I haven't seen the Ang Li film - a treat for later - so have come to this with fresh eyes, although rapidly did a re-read of S&S.

Thought the film showed far more of Col Brandon than the book does, especially the horse-whisering wooing of Marianne.

Jackie no - Oh the Horsewhisper stuff

Everyone involved should just hang their heads in shame.

Really. Have some self respect!!!!!!

Marianne was the bird, flying free, soaring in the heights of her passion! Colonel Brandon just sort of stood there, let her read his books and play with his organ (and who knows, maybe she even pinched some of the strawberries in that conspicuous bowl in the library) and then she came to him, all heaving bosom and tousled hair.

And then he took her home for a jolly good chafing.

Elinor was so upset she went and made bread. And then she and Edward chased some chickens.

Oh, I do love a clunky animal/baking metaphor.

Souteastastra - Irene Richard?

oh I have watched it now

I wish I hadn't

just goes to show you can't beat reading a book

what the hell was going on with that hawk?

you miss out uggins of fantastic dialogue so we can watch some bird fly about?

yes but Hugh what's his name was crap!

Dh said - eh-up, even Brandon's got another bird

Noellefielding - agree about the bird of prey imagery, though I read it more as 'taming the wild thing' imagery - to go with the horse whisperer stuff. Yeuch.

That part of the book / films makes me wonder if a bit of rain was somehow fatal 150 years ago?

If Col Brandon came looking for me after a morning out in the rain i'd probably just snot all over him.

Oh yes Alan Rickman! Ang Lee lets his actors ACT! So much compassion, so much longing!
Morrisey would have been excellent in this part if he'd been given some room imo.
(big DM fan!)

He will rescue you

Hi marina - I hadn't realised the nepotism, how vulgar!

Noelle - good name change for you! I've selected MN classic so I still have the old Luddite layout.

It's pouring with rain and I have to take the dog out. Do you think Colonel Brandon will come and rescue me?

If so, I'll take the ageing Rickman over last nights offering.

Marina, totally agree with the misses steele.

Stop casting comedians! It just makes the whole thing look silly imo!

Gross nepotism! I hate it even more now!

Janet McTeer = fab - not given enough to do though!

I only caught half of episode two and then three, but agree totally, what a dismal imitation of the film
Horrendous casting of Willoughby and a lot of thesp offspring doing well (Hattie is director Christopher Morahan's daughter, Daisy is director Piers Haggard's daughter, etc)
I am ploughing my way through Wives and Daughters on DVD so put that on directly afterwards and the contrast was so extreme it made my eyes water.
The Misses Steele were just not grasping and calculating enough, Mr Palmer was reduced to one line.
I did like Linda Bassett and Janet McTeer as Mrs Jennings and Mrs Dashwood though.

Oh it sucked so badly!
You're good!

I'm hiding for various reasons! Good to see you - I haven't been mumsnetting for ages owing to dh ban and never being able to control my mumsnet habit and also I can't get on with this different system of old messages first. I'm like an old Luddite who can't adjust to motor vehicles and missing the pony and trap!

You must be Ipanemagirl, yes?

You didn't like the programme then?

Oh and sisters chatting under the bedclothes! Copying Keira Knightley P&P and maybe even an earlier adaptation of something.
BARF! cliche!

OO Duchess! Long time no see! I've name changed!

Haven't read whole thread but feel passionately about this heap of S and S rubbish

1] Andrew Davies arrogant to take on a book that had been done perfectly by Ang Lee/Emma Thompson.
2] There were endless imitations of other Austen adapatations that just made you wish you were watching them.
3] Eleanor/Elinor had one expression 'Eyes Wide Open' - Give the girl a chance!
4] Marianne - too like Winslet; she made you miss her.
5]Morrisey - good actor - given no chance to do more than smoulder and alternate between 2 expressions.
6] Willoughby - appalling casting he looked like an alien
7] The duel - what?
8] Textual changes to no purpose
9] Brandon to M in the library "I'll leave you to Explore. Call me when you're ready" barf barf barf
10] Terrible bird of prey imagery yuck!
Thoroughly disappointing!

I only saw last nights episode. How dreary compared to Ang Lee's colourful film and yet the Davies version didn't really try to do it differently. Seemed like a complete waste of money & effort, he should have tried a different book.

I didn't think any of the men were attractive . And yet I'm usually very easily pleased when period dress is involved!

Nooooo I was so disappointed with the final episode - no real punch. It did seem like Alan Davies just wanted to wrap things up. Wanted so much more from David Morrisey - that was all very low key after his infatuation with her.

On a positive note though I will definitely have to read it now. And the music from the film is much better - so I ordered it and will soon be sitting at my pianoforte a la Marianne waiting for Alan Rickman......

oooh Blackpool

<wanders off to Lovefilm>

Well I enjoyed it... but not as much as the Emma Thompson/Hugh Grant version. I have to say though Elinor and Edward may have well as been ET and HG because the actors that played them played them the same (sounded the same too).

One positive though... DD1 now wants to read Pride and Prejudice and Sense and Sensibility.

I definitely warmed to Hattie Morahan's portrayal of Elinor in the last episode. And have to admit David Morrisey had something sexy about him. [LOL too at stripped and chafed all over] But rather too many over dramatic looks from him a la 'Dum dum dum dum dum de de de' EastEnders finale. The whole thing was so camped up and over dramatic and over expressed, and all that kissing ! Ah well. And didn't they miss out Edward's protracted explanation for his engagement to Miss Steele or have I remembered that wrongly? It all seemed a bit glib, 'oh well I did ask her to marry me but then i met you and changed my mind...'

Suebaroo - i know she's recently played bob Dylan - did she do Elvis too???

In fact, I think I might go and watch Blackpool now, for a bit more David Morrisey (with a nice David Tennant bonus...)

OBM, elves are tall. Cate Blanchett is elvish, you know.

TALL elves?!

Madness!

oh yes, DM was sexier than AR - but the part wasn't so well written as the film role, so we didnt get the full