Not read every post, but I don't see that CH4 are in any way advocating CV's approach?? They are just presenting it, and surely it speaks for itself - i.e. the inhumanity of it must surely put any sane person off the Tuby King method?
BUT what I do think is awful is using newborn babies in an experiment. I am ashamed of myself for watching the programme, and I won't be watching the follow ups. The number of people complaining is only justifying CH4's decision to make the programme, they are making huge profit from all the mums watching, we should just boycott the follow ups and then hopefully no further 'experiments' will be filmed.

well, having read all the posts to about 8.30 last night, i sat down to watch with my DP.

he's now a convert to The COntinuum concept method !

we're both up in arms about CV and Dreena whatserface.

The thing is, to most 1st time mums like myself, what claire verity says almost makes sense. i remember being v judgemental about people who didn't let their babies cry for a bit, because surely if their nappy was fresh, they'd been fed and winded, they were fine and just whinging and didn't actually NEED anything. Especially as I have spoilt my dog rotten and she's a nightmare and i didn't want the same for my child (!!!!!)

I let DS cry for 20mins when he was about 2-3 days old, because that's what i'd been told to do and I have never forgotten it or forgiven myself that i could be so naive.

Now that I have him, i realise that there is so much more complexity involved. I read and read and read when he was firstborn, to try to understand him, and followed various advice - including almost controlled crying at 3 months. I now know that all those books should have gone out the window and should have just followed my instincts. I think we're almost taught to expect that the experts know best, following programs like supernanny and the like and the reality is that there is nothing better than a parents instinct, with a bit of guidance from MNetters .

The worst part for me was the look on Mia (?) dads face when CV told him he couldn't cuddle his own daughter. Not just now, but never. He was gutted, and there is no getting that time back. It goes so quick and he was missing out on that vital bonding time before he went back to work. Felt so sorry for him.

ANd also, that parents want their lives to go back to normal once they've had a baby. I mean, WTF !!!! your life will NEVER be the same, and if you want it to be, what the FUCK is the point in having a baby in the first place ?

I will reserve an open mind as to the rest of the series though ! Will be interesting to see the outcome.

Sorry for the lengthy post and I'm sure it's all been said already !

i've got to say that the leaving the child to sleep in the fresh air bothered me the least. dd used to love sleeping when we went to the park so if we'd had a garden i think i'd have put her out. maybe not as a newborn, right enough. the issue to me seems to be that the parents are told to ignore their child's cries, which is just plain wrong.

There we are - no baby of her own - explains everything about the silly cow.

I watched the prog and she was awful, thanks god she doesn't have children of her own (although I imagine if she did, and she actually does have a heart in there somewhere, she would changes her "rules" pretty quickly)

I would just like to say, about leaving the baby outside, never mind the cold and leaving them to cry (which is bl**dy awful full-stop) but does this women listen/read the news. Weirdo's will go to alsorts of length to snatch babies/ children and she wants people to deliberately leave them outside, for 3hrs, screaming while you are inside with the door closed so you can't hear them. Is she insane..????

Oh yes, and I even 'allow' mum and dad to do so, but then I'm a rebel.

do you cuddle???

Well. don't suppose there would be much point in advertising my services as a Maternity Nurse now!

CV will be at the baby show in may 2008, anyone fancy a public hanging

me too

oh you[ll like next week's. CV on bfing.

softballwidow i guess if they'd had a few non-guru couples, it would have shown that -gasp! some babies sleep through without a routine; some routines do not prevent you from having a normal relationship with your babies; feeding a baby in ANY way doesn't always go smoothly throughout; etc etc.

Oh dear. why am I so easily manipulated. [sets video for next week's episode ]

see that's the thing though, tiktok. you know the difference, but the ordinary viewer doesn't. they see/hear LLL and think bfing counsellor. interesting that you think she was shite, i did wonder myself, largely because <grins tightly> that was about the level of care i received.

choosy, i agree, if this is to be a valid 'experiment' (for want of a better word) then there should be a normal, 'control' couple, who do as most of us do, bit of this, bit of that, few mistakes, use our instincts and advice from friends and family. a couple who appreciate that all babies are unoque, and have different needs, and CANNOT be pigeon holed...

I remember my midwife helping me to latch, it took us about two hours, from about 3am, she saw my light on in my room at hospital and came in to help me, wonderful woman, I wished I could have sent her to that poor woman last night.
Breastfeeding should not hurt!

Aitch - she is definitely not an LLL counsellor. The website says she is a 'breastfeeding support officer' with LLL, a post that I have never heard of....no breastfeeding counsellor or trained person with any of the vol orgs would have been so dreadful at helping that poor woman with her bf.

I don't care if it is edited, and 5 mins later it all worked beautifully .... no one from the vol orgs manhandles a woman and a baby, and so ineptly, too

me too, choosy, i got flashbacks when i saw that woman sitting there wiht 'help me' on her face. apparently claire scott is a LLL bfing counsellor though.

Really glad Tiktok posted first about Claire Scott (Continuum Concept)'s breastfeeding advice. It looked to me as if her technique was utter pants - the mum involved appeared to be doing exactly the thing wrong that I did for 11 weeks while 13 supposedly helpful people advised me, and her approach was 'I did it like this' - for two children - NOT impressive.

All three seem to have a manner designed to drain confidence from the parents tbh.

Wish they had two families with no guru involved.

moron, yes, that's the word I was trying to think of.
Did anyone from here ring in?
I was hoping someone would tell her she was a dangerous lunatic but they were all very measured, and in the end it came across as "Let's humour these hormone riddled mothers who want to spoil their babies and attend to their every whim"

He was being a flipping moron, and by no way dealing with the newborn issue, just vaguely covering if there was ever a time we should let babies cry, which I'm sure as mothers we have all done at some point, but it is age relevant ffs!

He's a pita with added cheese. Eurgh, makes my skin crawl just thinking about his smarmy smile... Mananges to make any journalistic angle look banal and..well..tabloid but that's what he's paid to do I guess..

well we all know babies are little manipulative attention seekers - they've got to learn!
Plus he kept banging on about 6 month olds. At no point did he make it clear that CV inflicts this regime on newborns.

What did mr cheeso wright have to say on the subject?

never seen the wright stuff before, what a load of rubbish

My DS is 3 in december, if he cries I go to him, it normally takes a kiss on the head or a quick 30 second hug to make him better, and then he'll happily go off and do his own thing, where is the problem in this??
If on the other hand he is just whinging because he is tired, then I would likely ignore him.
There is obviously going to be a huge difference between children and babies, and the first few months are critical.

DS (15mths) woke up last night at about 2am. I took great pleasure in going into cuddle him back to sleep and kissing his little face. Was he manipulating me? No, he was cold and looked frightened- because he's a fricking human being who needs his Mammy and Daddy!

OMG, Why are they not understanding the difference between small children and babies, yes, small children can be attention seeking, but babies?????

babies do, of course, have the cognitive ability to plan how to manipulate their parents and act upon that decision.

Assumng of course that they are born about 2 years overdue, ime.

"babies can be terrible attention seekers"

They put the newborn baby outside in a pram and closed the door in cold weather. Surely this isn't legal? I mean with all the child protection laws we have now that can't be allowed can it?

That was the post I was responding to, that's all.

Wisteria - I made point earlier that it is just as, if not more so, dangerous to leave a baby unattended outside in the heat. They will die very quickly if dehydrated....

Do you know that even in the darkest throes of the worst PND and OCD I would have cut out my own heart rather than leave my babies to cry for hours on end....

i don't shout at TV's.... until last night! Why would anyone agree to put their baby through something like this? I ahve no issues with the cold (but think its a good idea if your baby is outside to be with them- at least keep the bloody door open), but the BF advice was poor and when they wouldn't even let the sibling cuddle the baby- poor lass! A very strange bizarre experiemnt! The chances of me following any routine rigidly are non-existent, but the CV one- er no thanks.

err, i think most people already know the point you were trying to make.

no one has said they shouldn't go out in cold weather. people are objecting to stuffing them out in cold weather for an undeterminable period of time (maybe 3 hrs?), alone, while you pooter about the warm kitchen making yourself a warm cuppa.

No need for the raised eyebrows Kiskidee - it just always irritates me when people say that babies shouldn't be out in cold weather - it's perfectly acceptable for babies to be in prams in winter, outside as long as they are wrapped up well.
I was just making the point that it is more dangerous to be too warm than too cold

she is the nany to Prince Edward and Sophies kid - that explains it - the royals are devoid of emotion as well

Oh, all three of the 'experts' were hopeless.

Claire Verity was providing a service to parents who for some reason do not want to be emotionally attached to their babies. There is a huge body of reasearch going back 40 or more years that demonstrates this has long term sometimes irreversible effects on mental and physical health (not on everyone - some human beings are more resiliant, but on many). In order not to be emotionally attached, you need to work quite hard at ignoring your instincts and impulses. So her methods make perfect sense if all you are worried about is the parents' ability to be detached, and if you don't worry about the baby. Out of the three, she has the potential to do most damage.

Dreena whatever her name was is prejudiced against breastfeeding in public and I gather does not think bf is advisable after 3 mths. So she can get stuffed as well.

Claire Scott may be a lovely person in real life, and I warmed to her personality, but she makes and sells the slings she was using which is an ad, in my book. But more than that, she was useless at supporting that poor mother with her breastfeeding - she was making things worse, as she had no practical skills at all...and sadly did not realise it.

Lorayn

who'd have thought it

Ahh rtkanga beat me too it!!

Havent caught up since last night but cv and the others are on matthew wright on channel 5 now.

nobody is saying it is better to keep a baby in an overheated house.

Nbg, previous clients were sting, jack nicholson and mick jagger.

.









ALL 3 EXPERTS ON CHANNEL 5 AROUND 10.00am ON WRIGHT STUFF














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YOU CAN RING UP AND TALK TO THEM

THERE IS ALSO A PHONE LINE TO VOTE WHETHER YOU PICK UP A CRYING BABY

























.

Haven't read all of the posts...so sorry if its already been said...
At the beginning of the show it said the couples chose the method which seemed closest to their expectations/lifestyles. I found it fascinating and disturbing, but I'm not ready to complain to C4 etc yet, as this first programme was very early days.
It may be that the couples reject CVs ideas completely as the programme continues. Fingers crossed anyway. It would take a very cruel and heartless mum and dad to basically ignore their baby for any length of time, although I guess there are some out there or this woman wouldn't be making a fortune out of it
I confess to having a Dr Spock and I refer to it still (DD is 4 now). Most of the advice is sensible stuff and excellent for medical notes, behaviour problems etc. I liked that it isn't prescriptive, that it gave me confidence to make it up as I went along. Would highly recommend it!
Wish I'd had a sling like the ones on the programme tho' - I had a Tomy thing which just wasn't comfy for dd or me, and gave up carrying her quite quickly.

Yeah the outside thing was pretty standard in 50s early 60s. My mum was told to park my poor (premature) sister out at 7 in the morn and wait till she cried.

'But she never cries' my mum said. 'I could still be waiting till 5pm when me husband comes home'

Ahh says HV, better pick her up then. It was later found my sister had quite severe breathing problems. This was 1963. Pretty standard, but shocking all the same.

There would be absolutely nothing wrong with wrapping a baby up very warmly and putting in a pram in cold weather tbh, I also agreed with leaving windows open and plenty of fresh air getting into the nursery - it is far more dangerous IMHO for a baby to be kept in all day in an overheated house.

However, this was all I did agree with, that and carrying on having parties etc if you want to and them having own room if you want them to.

I hated her heartlessness though and the 10 minute cuddle allowance, no eye contact etc - that's ridiculous and cruel, also totally unnatural for any mother - but she wouldn't know that would she?

you know what? if a classroom is 17 degrees C or below, they either have to bring portable heaters in or find me another classroom to teach in.

It is AGAINST THE LAW to teach students in those conditions.

Poor Poor Babies.

I haven't read the rest so excuse me if I'm repeating.

It broke my heart when that couple following the no cuddle routine, who had an older daughter who wasn't allowed to cuddle her sister. This newborn time should be all about her bonding with her new baby sister, not about her sister being outside on her own.

Verges on child abuse!

yes, she did say that about being a bitch, "yes, I am bitch.....kerrrching"

I would really love to know who her previous clients have been.
I reckon I could take a good guess.

Loved how they did a shot of her driving her big fat Mercedes and then her changing gear showing us her big fat rocks on her finger.

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I just read the article about her in the times, she has a house full of animals and treats them tons better than she does the babies she has looked after
STRANGE WOMAN

She is childless, and it seems blatantly obvious to me that she is lining her pockets. She can not seriously think that what she is doing is right, but at the same time, it is apparently earning her a lot of cash. What a bitch.
Her methods are pure evil, I also feel sorry for the silly arses who opted for her methods, they must feel like they can't back down, when of course they should.
Very interested in how this turns out.

She is one scary lady that Verity woman!

Wonder how much Huggies sales will drop as a result of last nights programme?

I have put my babies outside in the pram before now, next to my back door, which was open, with me very close by, and I cant think of a time before about 3 months old when I left either of them to cry for more than a couple of minutes. As they got older I would leave them for a while whilst I shoveled my dinner down my neck or went for a wee or something, but I NEVER left them crying for no reason, and I NEVER left them to cry themselves to sleep before about 7/8 months, even then I would never let them cry long, just go in and comfort them without picking them up, then leave once they were calm again.

I bet that CV is CHILDLESS!

Another fecking childcare guru who hasn't a clue about being a Mum.

...and we are supposed to respect her opinion.

Didn't watch the programme as I knew it would fill me with rage.

CV should not be telling people how to care for for children
It was heartbreaking watching Mia's mum cry when she just wanted to cuddle her baby
to deny a baby cuddles and get them on a four hourly feeding routine is barbaric when they are 1 day old FFS ...

well, aitch, you were right, this place has gone NUTS

pixie - i was gobsmacked about that too - leaving the baby outside and closing the door behind you!! ....i do agree leaving the baby outside on its own but i do prefer i can see the baby - just incase..

Is it wrong that I giggled at the Telegraph describing her as "stoutly" defending her methods (they also used the word "terrifying"!)

Even my DH was upset by this programm, what if new mums watch this. It was really scary

she's not even allowed to make eye contact with it
I'm not exaggerating

OMG! I couldn't believe it. They put the newborn baby outside in a pram and closed the door in cold weather. Surely this isn't legal? I mean with all the child protection laws we have now that can't be allowed can it?

On the whole I thought the programme was great, I think it was brilliant showing different methods and showing different people and how it works or doesn't work for them. A real eye opener I thought but I just could not believe that they put that baby outside in a pram.

I felt so sorry for the mother when the baby was crying upstairs and she wasn't allowed to go up and comfort her child. It must have been horrible for her, one day her baby's living inside her womb where it's safe and she's protecting it and the next it's upstairs screaming and she's not even allowed to hold it close to her. How horrible.

OH MY DEAR GOD.
I watched this on plus1 last night as I had other stuff to watch at nine. And then the bloody storm f*ed up my sky so I missed some of it, BUT I did see from the second baby CV was mentoring.
I really dont know what to say, I have 2dcs and both slept through pretty quickly, DS not as quickly but I co-slept and bf on demand so my sleep wasnt interrupted that badly.
How on earth can you say every baby ever born needs a feed every four hours???
Babies are born different sizes, as are their bellies, so it makes sense that they need different feeding routines
I really felt for the woman that was finding breast feeding so hard yet persevered and I think she was bloody great!!!
Pity that will be what a lot of mothers take from this program, that bf is painful and hard
And as for the glass of wine on the first night
That baby woke up an hour and a half after it went to bed, therefore it must have been around 8:30pm but they werent allowed to touch it again til feedtime at 11pm, did they actually leave it for TWO AND A HALF HOURS??????????

I thought CV ws cruel and barking mad myself, but then mine were raised in the 'instinctive parenting' style, fed on demand, luggged around in slings, and I even slept with DD2 from birth till about 9 months - but that was mainly because DH insisted that if I really must have a second child he didn't want to be disturbed at nights this time Anyway I liked it - DD2 used to wake me up with smiles, happy cooing and a friendly bop on the nose. Ahhh for those lovely days....

However I myself was raised by the 'leave in pram in freezing fog to yell all afternoon' method which was de rigeur in the late 50s, and I'm very cuddly, affectionate and extremely placid. I think it harmed my poor Mum more than me, she said it was absolute agony.

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Pruners!

I'm going to start a new thread about the complaints BTW

Since Harlow's poor little monkey's and the Russian Orphanages have already been mentioned I thought you might all find this quite interesting.

This shows some of the results of such tests like CV's on monkey's and children. I find it very interesting that the man who decided to do these experiments on the children was executed and is described as a communist dictator.
The section called In the Orphanage is where you will find the very sad result of growing up without love and human contact. Tho I know this is a very extreme case of neglect of the children, how far of a throw is it really from what CV is condoning???

> I used to HATE that if I lay gazing into the DSs' beautiful big brown eyes at night, there was a sneaking "no eye contact!" shrilling faintly at the back of my thoughts. Fucking woman who put it there. Still did it though

Me too Hunker

CLBB methods are not THAT far off CV's, even if she doesn't actually hate babies and treat them like cattle

Certainly the examples given in CLBB of babies crying for hours to 'teach' them to sleep are far worse than was shown last night

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Or worse even, baking hot sun (how quickly would a baby die then? Surely less than 3 hours?)

Just wondering if baby must go out in rain, snow and sleet as well?

Have complianed to both ch4 and ofcom. thnaks for the links.
I'm still so this morning

God - I had to turn it off when they put the baby outside and the dad said to the older child that they couldn't pick the baby up. Didn't watch it all so can't comment on whether this was depicted as a good thing or not - concerning though - I would argue that leaving a child outside for 3 hours while you shut the door is neglect.

I knew it! When I watched CV last night I said to my DH I reckoned she was animal mad and let them have the run of her house.....just read The Times article on her and I was right! What is it with people like that? Why be nice to animals and nasty to children?

I'm just so glad that at last we get to see sling wearing and positive attitude to co-sleeping and bf on tv!

I'm dead against the programme experimenting with babies, especially using CV's extreme methods. But I do think using 3 different styles actually helps to show that there is no RIGHT way - an element sadly lacking in most baby programmes.

I feel sorry for the CV babies, and hugged my co-sleeping 10 month old even more in bed last night than usual. But surely their parents would have used a similar method with or without CV?

What's upsetting is that it's probably the pressure of going back to work for that mother that's forcing her to use a routine based system. (And that's prob true for many celebs too - tho' at least they have a choice).

I havent read all posts, so sorry if this has already been said, but that CV woman seems to resent babies!

If you had a dog and 'cared' for it using her method it would barely be acceptable.

Yet she seems to believe babies have an agenda and are conniving enough to think 'oh goody, i've got mum's attention now, I've won' when the mum does something as instinctive as picking it up when they are days old!

I pity those poor parents who got saddled with her as their 'guru'.

Well I have posted my complaint to Ofcom this morning!!!

Totally agree that CV is actually showing other parents that that is the right way to parent....... A form of child neglect I think.....

As someone said earlier (in amonst the 900+ threads), who are the people that pay £1000 a day, celebrities who probably want babies as a status symbol like those tiny dogs they take everywhere! CV was of "neglect" parenting would be ideal for them as they can then get on with prancing around in their prada and sunglasses.....I know not all celebrities are like that but I am sure I could hazard a guess and name some names but won't....

It's just so so sad.....

Sarah x

a friend of mine has 3 dds and the longest she bf was 4mo. She follows the Cont. Conc. as closely as she could. Bedsharing was not being an option as her dh smokes but she did room in with her dd. (cot near the bed)

Cont. Conc. is not an all or nothing, thing. Surely the fact that we are not living in a stone age culture means that some things have to be adapted for lots of different reasons. The thing is, Jean Leidloff didn't write a childcare manual. Infact, everything she said about child rearing with the Yequana in this book adds up to maybe a page, maybe less?

I spent 4 days in hospital having at least 6 midwives and one bf specialist trying to get dd to feed. In the end it was said she as going to starve and ff was the best option. I did try using a breast pump but was left alone after my cs and after 3 failed attempts gave up. I am probably a bit sensitive on the subject (eight months later)

Personally I found a routine invaluable to me between 3 and 8 weeks - it was not rigid at all but did provide some kind of timetable to try and work on. Then again I had no friends with children and was going very much by the book. I could not have left a newborn out in the garden with the door closed though - tempting as it may be at times.

yep that was annoying. later she says that only 2% of women can't bf, so i suppose she was meaning it from that perspective but it didn't come across well i agree.

well, i don't know about the second CV family but there's a piece in the Daily Mail about the woman with twins and she says that she loved the routine. i think the peer pressure of having a camera crew in your house making a programme about a routine would make you do funny things. also, i've noticed having seen two eps, the men seem very keen to reinforce the routine and also adopt the role of caring protector to their upset wives. it seems to be a weird win-win for them.

I also found the continuum lady upsetting, especially when she said only bf mothers could follow that method. I felt uncomfortable at the way the mother was being handled, and the lack of sensitivity to non bf mothers - for whatever reason they may have - they are obviously not welcome

Yes I did watch the programme. I was shocked with the baby being left in the garden for 3 hours - why not go for a walk to get fresh air? but then again, I am not convinced that the parents would be as strict when the cameras were off.

a 94 yr old lady I knew and who died a year ago would have summed up CV this way:
"I don't think she got enough cuddles when she was a baby."

she also thought it was great that i was a bfer.

do you think her mother didnt love her and she wants revenge on the world

did you see the programme, lucy?

Surely though, most people would not be as straight down the line as these 'experts' suggest? This is just another reality show where it is edited to look shocking. I'm sure nobody would leave a tiny baby crying and when the cameras were off, or where the show was edited, the mother would have went to her babe - or am I being naive?

I actually really, really object to having "gurus" out there spouting this sort of shit.

I used to HATE that if I lay gazing into the DSs' beautiful big brown eyes at night, there was a sneaking "no eye contact!" shrilling faintly at the back of my thoughts. Fucking woman who put it there. Still did it though

i absolutely love it too... it makes me hug her closer and pat her back. there's that manipulation CV's talking about.

Actually, saying that, Aitch, you're right, both boys have patted when they're picked up. I love it!

Hey, MNHQ - can we get CV on here for a live chat? <snigger>

sponsored by huggies

must go to bed but im so glad there are lots of other mums who feel the same way as i do.

If its sponsored by huggies, i will email them tommorrow and say i will withdraw my business (secretly i use bamboozles real nappies and bambo disposables - but they are not to know [sneaky emoticon])

night night x off to cuddle ds and watch him as he giggles in his sleep, the little cutie!

it's not just common sense, it's instinct. dd pats me on the back as well when i pick her up and she's tired, i think it's hard-wired.

Yes, Dreena doesn't feature too highly on my list of People I Aspire To Parent Like.

Although I did do the patting on back/bottom thing when holding the boys - works well. As does the holding firmly thing.

But I knew that before she said it because it's Common Sense

Sponsored by Huggies, Pampers featured in the ad breaks.

oh dear, i've gone off Dreena. she's an idiot as well. love Claire Scott, but then it turns out she's a BLWer!

Nope, tbh I switch off from adverts anyway. If anyone has taped it maybe they could make a list of the advertisers?

I was thinking of direct action after a comment on this thread about CV needing a cuddle.

I thought that we could stalk her and give her hugs when she least suspected it.

But I'm not sure I wouldn't vom down her back if I got that near her.

Daisy - did you take notice of advertisers tonight? Cause I didn't.....

I'd even contact them tomorrow and say that if they advertise with that trash next week my business is lost to them forever.

nope, but then i've only seen eps 1 and 2, kerrymum.

Heartened by the comments on that btw:

"The point of weaning is to get the child ultimately off milk and onto real food, over a period of 1-2 years. What on earth then is the point of weaning from breast to bottle at 3-4 months? Breastmilk is the perfect food for babies, yet our culture is to introduce a poor substitute. Why?

Lynne Goldsack, Ashford, Kent,

If a mum wants to stop breastfeeding she can stop whenever she wants - but why on earth routinely wean off the breast at 3 to 4 months as suggested by Dreena Hamilton? Surely if a mum has got to 12 weeks with breastfeeding and her and her baby are settled into it, it makes far more sense to keep going if mum is able and willing to. She's done all the hard work getting breastfeeding established - the easy feeding that comes afterward is the reward! And it'd be a rare baby who'd choose to be weaned off the breast at 3 months - most babies of this age love breastfeeding and find it incredibly satisifying. Why deprive them of the pleasure and the health benefits of breastfeeding?

Wendy Hinds, London,"

How about a bit of direct action? If enough people contact the companies advertising during the commercial breaks in the programme threatening to boycot their products perhaps they will withdraw their support for the programme and make C4 take more notice of objections.

Aitch - come on! One of the parents pops her one, surely?

Spill!

I've complained both to Ofcom and Channel 4, which is a first for me.

I can't type any of what I actually feel as I'd probably get banned and/or sued

On a more positive note, it was great to see newborns being worn in slings on mainstream TV Just a shame that they had to show CV as well.

the otherwise nice middle-way person. it was a bit weird, actually, and lost her many points with me. as MP said, when did bfing become a tribal way? it's the human way.

Ignore their instincts I mean!

Gosh, little flurry there wasn't there!

who said bf in public is wrong?
<loses will to live>

And people are willing to do it. Sad.

nearly pulled my ds {2} out of his cot and his sleep to cuddle him my hug your crying baby instincts went so bad!i hope no mums to be think this is what you should do with a newborn

yes pooter. It's a freakin disgrace....

we are a rubbish species, procreatively-speaking, it's only our enormous brains and nurturing instincts that have kept us from extinction. we don't have enough babies to let them die all over the shop.

On a hopeful note - there are probably a lot of first time preggies out there who watched this programme - I know I watched almost everything with baby in the title when I was pregnant in the hopes of getting some good tips. Surely any of them who did would be able to see that CV's approach is totally wrong and will steer clear of any Truby type books or advice. Honestly, what would a man in the 1950's know anyway? It's no wonder his method doesn't advocate breastfeeding!

Actually, I found it quite offensive that any woman could sit on such a very public forum as TV and say that breastfeeding in public is wrong in any way - it was the only thing that I felt Dreena lost brownie points on. I don't go in for anything as radical as the continuum concept but the fact that Claire was proactively promoting and seen helping a Mum with breastfeeding on screen was really good.

arent there human rights laws which would cover this sort of shit? denying basic human needs to anyone, let alone babies... no??

it makes no evolutionary sense at all to ignore our young, especially as we have one at a time and we invest so much in them.

Kerrymum - yes, thats my point - we are animals and if we didnt have our nurturing instinct we wouldnt be a very successful species. That bloody woman is persuading people to ignore thier instincts.

Don't ALL animals nurture their young?

d'ya think, harpsi?

I have complained to ofcom and channel 4 and joined socialbaby blog thingy. It sickens me to think that some parents will be influenced by CVs authoratative and bullying tone and adopt her inhumane methods.

CUDDLE YOUR BABIES!!!!!

I co-sleep and bf and you have never seen such a smiley happy boy. I love him with all my heart - why on earth would i want to ignore his cries?

Stupid woman. The human race has proliferated because we nurture our young - thats what instinct is for. Im so frustrated and angry with her for peddling such dangerous and just plain WRONG ideas. poo.

IF ignoring her would make her go away, then tyaca would ahve a point... but thats not going to happen is it? she is doing damage all the time that she is allowed to spout her 'advice' unchallenged.

H I think you may have been right
I have exercised my informed choice not to watch or record this programme, I just don't think my nerves could stand it. this really is a new low for our culture, isn't it?

Well, I'm glad i missed it and will NOT be watching it next week, either!

Agree Hunker. I felt compelled/a duty to air my utter disgust at what I saw.
I am suprised I managed to hold back this long tbh.

Tyaca, by not posting about it, by not condemning it, I would feel as if I was condoning her, albeit silently. I think many on this thread would agree with that.

I object to someone trying to silence this thread by posting "you're giving them what they want, you naive twits" (not in so many words).

oh . my. goodness.

boy am i glad i missed this.

can she not be prosecuted for child abuse? if its illegal to incite hatred, illegal to incite violence, then surely it illegal to incite child abuse? denying human contact, communication and interraction IS child abuse.

seriously though, tyaca... so what? what's your actual point?

I was absolutely disgusted and horrified.
My heart weeps for that little baby.
Since becoming a mother, my mothering instincts show towards total strangers' babies! How you can shun your instincts baffles me. I can only assume the mother of the baby is still mad on hormones and when they right themselves she will see what is right, like the father appears to be doing, slowly.

I REFUSE to watch that train wreck EVER again!

Will this not damage that baby?
yes, imo.

they will not cancel the tv show

noone will be charged with accounts of abuse

the programme makers will be over the moon that the tv programme has already generated 800+ posts on sites like these

there will be more discussion in mainstream press over the next week

and next weeks show will get higher ratings

Dh was getting riled beyond belief! He wanted to punch the telly!

I was shouting obscenities at it.

I felt also that it was simply child abuse. Leaving a baby a day old to cry?
Slinging the window open at bedtime?
Leaving the baby outside for 3 hours at a time with prolific scavengers and shutting the door?
Not cuddling the baby at all?
Holding the baby as far away as poss while feeding?

It was just sick if you ask me.

The thing that really pisses me right the fuck off is when people say things like 'The baby is trying to play you, it wants you to pick it up'
Of course it f'ing does. Just yesterday it was INSIDE YOUR BELLY!!

Makes me so angry! I wanted to go to their house and pick that baby up!

Will this not damage that baby? She should be bonding with her parents!

dear lord it was like watching bambis mother get shot for the first time watching that looper with the baby!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm glad I listened to my dd's cries. She responded brilliantly to treatment for silent reflux (of which crying was the only symptom). I shudder to think of the months of pain she would have had to endure otherwise. Babies don't cry for no reason ime.

I'm completely real.

How can you keep your children under control if you don't know them?

Why should your children respect what you say if they don't like you?

There comes a point, quite early on, where "because I say so" doesn't cut it.

hm - how sad for people to think that. "I wish I;d known it was alright..." how utterly sad and awful - and, I fear, a symptom not just of this particular kind of regime but of the whole idea "regimes". such women doing not what they felt was right but actively ignoring their instincts thanks to the perceived need to do it by the book. how completely sad.

orangehead I also reckon you just plain luuucckkkyy! so much is down to who your babes are, mine aren't fab sleepers but that's not all they are, y'know fuck it I'd rather have them be the little bright sparks they are then force them kicking and screaming to give up the fight and sleep cos they know there never anyone gonna come...

Very articulately put hunkermunker. wish I could be so eloquent. the prog ahs made me drink too much wine.

Abusive practices being broadcast for entertainment and even more disturbingly education purposes for new parents, this is worrying.

the cows followed their instincts cos THEY ARE COWS. I don't think they had routine feeds tho!

As humans we msut respond to and nurture our instincts. the crying of a newborn makes mums, and dads anxious and our urge is to hold and comfort. To deny that instinct is to be inherently inhumane.

fgs nobiggy......get real

Did you get a response?

I think if everyone who has expressed their disgust on here complains as per the links then perhaps it will.

It's not just CV we have to fear. DD1 was born 6 yrs ago, MW was constantly on my case to only feed every 4 hours, and leave her in her cot between feeds. God help her Dad when he came to visit and picked her up. I was in hospital for 6 days 'cos DD1 was not putting on weight (partly due to MW trying to shove breast in babies mouth), and actually convinced me (1st time mum) that baby needed ff. DD1 never recovered from that and never established BB. DD2 was born 2 yrs ago, and because I was 2nd time mum, we were left completely alone. She BF immediately and I fed when she needed and we cuddled her when she and we wanted. Had a much easier time of it. Maybe it's th MWs who also need re-educating

kerrymum - that's one of the points I complained about

Im parenting method was total opposite to cv, it basically followed my instinct, Bf on demand lots of cuddles and attention in day and less attention at night feeds ie spoke quietly kept lights down, would never of considered leaving child in garden or leaving to cry for longer than 5 mins. However my son slept 7 till 7 from two weeks old. U dont need strict abusive rountines to great results

If the NSPCC has broadcast commercials showing leaving a crying baby as neglect than why is something not being done about this program?

Honestly not getting it....

and even Truby King's own foundation has moved with the times www.plunket.org.nz/AM/Template.cfm?Section=MR71 by advocating breast feeding - unlike that imbecile CV who is still promoting its methods as they were in the 1920's and 30's! Why?!!! Would you want your child to be bought up like this now?

the saddest thing for me was the 9 year old sister of baby Mia saying " i just wanted to have a cuddle" , ipoor kid, i bet she has looked forward to that baby arriving for months and being a big sister, that started me crying....

err xposts methinks hm

But look at the women who had Truby Kinged their babies in the '50s on the prog.

They weren't happy about it either!

And I know LOTS of older women who've said to me "I wish I'd known it was all right to cuddle my babies as much as you cuddle yours" to me - especially when DS2 was tucked up in his sling.

How thick do you think we are, btw? It's not about being "of the moment" - it's about basic human needs being met or not. And if you have a baby and reject its needs so categorically from the word go, that's so blatantly a problem that anybody who can't see that - well, I have to wonder about their intelligence levels and motivation, really!

Just because we live in a certain time and place doesn't mean we can't fight for basic rights for all, cultural relativism is meaningless, no wrong, if it means you are willing to sit back and let things that are abusive or (in other situations) repressive, inhumane etc. devils avocate is one thing but not on this basis. I think everyone has to judge, lets face it we do and we argue that's how we work out what seems right.

I do genuinely wonder
- if a baby is to be ignored as much as possible, and tolerated when it can't be ignored, and assuming this continues throughout childhood, what is the point of having children at all? and, again cos no-one answered!
- if a baby is born at 7.01, does it have to wait 3hrs59m for its first feed?

good post NoBiggy

Instinct about your child is derived from knowledge of them. So you get a feeling that something is wrong with them, and investigate before it's too late. So you know that they have a problem and can address their needs even though they can't tell you.

If you're detached from your child from the outset, you won't develop that instinct. You'll cut your parenting legs off.

And it doesn't get easier as time goes on.

Sleeping though the night at 2 weeks, but delinquent at 13 years possibly?

That's because the program was reinstating a method that had been out of favour for decades due to the fact that scientific and medical advancements and understanding of the psychological development of babies have shown it to be an unsatisfactory way to treat a baby. I have no problem with a historical examination of baby care methods but it is not justifiable to inflict them on real life babies and families in this day and age in the name of entertainment.

Too many parents these days are selfish enough to believe that they can have a baby for an accessory. This means a baby who can be bought out as a fashion accessory and an addage to their materialistic lives. If there were not parents who wanted CV's services she would not be charging £1000 a day. I think her methods are abhorent, but my SIL thinks she's great. I just pity my new nephew/niece when it is born.

it made the parents cry
unlike the other parents

It's cruel and abusive that's why, no one on here condones abuse this goes way beyond parenting methods

amen Tyaca

yes I thought about meningitis
I think babies with meningitis don;t cry - go floppy and quiet
You'd probably notice if you went to cuddle them, or kiss them

OK - SOMEONE NEEDS TO PLAY DEVIL'S ADVOCATE HERE.

conceptions of childcare, mothering, and baby's needs change from generation to generation, from society to society.

that, surely, was part of the programme's thesis.

the responses on this thread demonstrate exactly this. we live in a very particular moment in a very particular time. look - we even have one of europe's busiest websites just so we can all discuss the minutae of parenting.

when we judge methods that seem so very alien to us, how much are we judging what we percieve to be the parent's motivation for choosing to raise a baby in a certain way?

I am shocked and apalled by this CV woman. It almost made me cry. And there is no way on gods earth I would be leaving my baby outside unattended. Quite apart from loony abductors and bad weather, how the hell can anyone say a fox would definitely not take a baby? They will take anything!
These parents are mad, quite simply. If her methods are making them cry, nuff said.

another thing I have just thought of before i go to bed - what about serious illness eg meningitis? official guidelines are to be watchful and keep an eye on babies with fever or other signs of illness - so that swift, life-saving action can be taken in the case of eg meningitis. How the f* can you do that if your newborn is down the other end of the effing garden for 4 hours or shut in it's own room all night?

I am not necessarily ranting against routines by the way - I think flexible routines can have their place once the babies are a bit older and did use one loosely based on baby whispherer stuff with ds 1 and can see how you might need one with twins eg (though the more I learn about babies and in hindsight, am getting more tribal by the minute with my newborn) - but what this woman advocates goes way beyond that - I think her methods are dangerous and abusive.

I take the point about the other end of the spectrum eg suffocation while co-sleeping etc but that is an informed choice that some make - this program was not showing how dangerous her methods were and how contrary to current medical and scientific thinking.

Come On Aitch - Someone HAS to pop her one before the program is out.....

Spill!

or a slap
(well she didn't but I wonder)

minnie, she would advise earplugs. probably

UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

COMPLAIN???????????????????????


POOOOOOOOR BABIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

they don't orangehead. seriously, they don't, at least not in ep 2. lol.

Aitch, I think we can safely say you were right
(thread title)

I couldn't work out how i knew that name

And my dd lanismum! A sling all day otherwise she screamed earsplitting blue colic murder. What would CV advise for a severely colicky baby? The same? Bad enough for babies without terrible stomach ache.

Attachment theory is not the same as attachment parenting. Co-sleeping has worked for many parents for years tho not a good idea of drinking/smoking common sense I think.

Attachment theory advocates consistent LOVING and a non critical stance to your child. When a baby they crt out of sheer need for affection and human closeness, to deny a baby this is to break it's trust, raise it's cortisol levels (stress hormone) and lead to feelings of insecurity and abandonment. Therefore cuddling and comforting and every available opporotunity is the ay evolution intended it to be.

Thats' why attachment parenting advocates carrying the baby in a sling, closeness warmth etc. I didn't attachment parent but took the middle ground. Never left her to cry, slept on the breast closeness etc. didn't co-slepp cos too scared of squashing her!

orangehead - I like to think they came close

Apart from crying, which is so irritating
Just shut the door, actually push them further down the garden

i have not read all the thread as it is so long but i have just finished watching the programme. I am horrid, Im not an aggressive person at all but found myself shouting 'stupid bitch' at the tele when she suggested leaving leaving the baby alone in the garden for 4 hrs. I just hope the parents realise and give in to thier natural instincts and tell her where to go and give that poor baby some love

mmm I guess the human rights of children are perhaps not something to get riled up about eh? after all not like they can even wipe their arses let alone any immediately grand heroic acts of protest...

I would have liked CV to have told my family they couldnt cuddle, hold, kiss, make eye contact with my girls, they were held pretty much the whole time till they were about 4 months old!

bit on attachment http://drbenkim.com/articles-attachment-parenting.html

that would be what "hole" not hold

mykids, have joined

Does anyone actually KNOW what hold this beast crawled out of?

I mean where the hell did she come from?

FSID say co-sleeping is bad if you've been drinking/smoking/taking drugs/are so tired you wouldn't wake/etc.

Not bad, full stop. But agree it is mighty confusing - which is exactly why programmes like this are so fucking irresponsible.

I sleep with mine and would liek to be reassured that my instincts are grat 0 if they want me I cuddle them without condition, cause I guess that's what i would have liked.

Just got a new HV - she said she was puffed out (polite swearing) with BF/co-sleeping advice - UNICEF say BF most important so to cosleep is good, FSIDS say Co sleeping bad full stop - she says she no longer knows what to advise, though anecdotally she slept with hers (we like her!!!!)

please join my facebook group

What do you need to know BTN?

Yes I do agree Aitch. But I think this could go on for a while so will catch up tomorrow.

<<leaves yawning and starts to turn to dust>>

The other woman - Dreena was it? Why does that name never appear on baby name lists on here, I wonder?

She annoyed me a bit, because she was going "I'm the reasonable one, don't listen to these lunatics" and saying bigoted things about bf.

NAO, of course a parenting website is going to get riled about this. How do you know half the women on here aren't paid up members of Amnesty Intl?!

I am going to do a patronising face about anybody who thinks that this is NOT a subject worth bothering with, actually.

Here it is:

Nurseyemma - please tell me nice things about attachment- I could do with a boost.

stealth was a scrub nurse in theatres when pg with dd. Operating tools, dreaming I was working.

good because that would be so wrong

pretty much, tori. but i think the other woman joins in as well. C$ really needs to be making clear where the experts are veering from the govt advice, imo. not that i think there's anything wrong with co-sleeping, but if i ignore the govt advice that's different from not knowing it in the first place.

What human rights issues would you like us to get irate about, NAO? List some on another thread, perhaps.

NAO, I've never thought of you as pompous before.

i thought there was a very long thread on that bulgarian orphanages show, wasn't there? that's an MN comparable situation to this, surely?

I'm furious about lots of things NAO. But like I said, I have never seen any kind of media saying that genital mutilation, or sex trafficking, or rape to further wars, or military rule are A Good Thing. Perhaps you can tell me where you've seen something like that and I can go and complain the appropriate programme makers too?

this is a human rights issue, this woman is advocating outright cruelty to newborn infants and their poor unsuspecting parents.

Leaving them alone in the garden for hours WTF!

Aitch what do they say in the nexy ep about it? Jus -big-mouth- CV saying dangerous with no evidence?

What emkana said
Not internationalhumanrightsnet

Can I talk about this if I promise to spend tomorrow night on the Amnesty talkboard, NAO?

Well we are mostly mothers of small children and so the subject of babies is close to our hearts.

What is wrong with that?

This is mumsnet

i have never seen mumsnet get so riled as this about any international human rights issue lapin

x post hunker, thanks
Think I'm going to go with common sense, and I never really get into a deep sleep like that anyway

Surely no one with any sense of humanity and empathy can not fail to be horrified by this parent or not? I flet sick when the baby wasn't evem cuddled up whilst feeding, it's almost like you can see the anger and distress setting in. These babies will grow up with disordered/ambivalent attachments carrying a huge risk of developing borderline/antisocial personality disorders which can cause drug addiction, mental illness and even criminality.


This is based on years and years of theory into attachment.

that programme and that woman are the most appalling things i have seen for a good while. Those CV families are REALLY going to regret this when they look back on the first weeks with their babies.
She is a dangerous woman who MUST be stopped, i am incensed by her stupidity and absolute disregard for the emotional and physical wellbeing of the babies in her care. what a fucking bitch (this is my personal view and not a reflection of the views held by mumsnet).

passing instruments? Sorry, am lost!
I don't fall asleep too much now as he only tends to wake once for a feed, what a failure as a mother I am. Maybe some sticky tape around the mouth

NaO -does that mean that we shouldn't care about getring our children imunised because there are children elsewhere that don't have that facility. Shouldn't campaign for better health care here because others are worse off?

Having this womans methods passed off as a common and sensible alternative could affect / inform [sic] loads of parents-to-be in this country

SPB, I don't know, really - I think the way the stats are collected doesn't do much for furthering knowledge - I've never seen a breakdown of what's "most" risky. I've fallen asleep like that in bed too, propped up with baby in arms.

You know what, I can't think of anything I'd have found more stressful in the early weeks (or any time) than some expert, no matter their creed, telling me what to do all the time. The ultimate MIL from hell who never leaves...

Agree that CV is monstrous but both to innocent newborns and hormonally charged new mothers (and fathers). Presumably we'd have read about it already if someone had snapped and bundled her out into the back garden with a fork in her eye? <hopes>

Whoops, sorry BTN, didn't spot you on here amongst the massive throng of ranting MNers

I'm Not supporting CV but am sure on the feeding timetable she had an 11pm and 3am feed listed so I don't think she was expecting the baby to go through the night (maybe she'll wait til at least 2 weeks for that)

I followed a sleep/feed routine but cannot understand why CV is thinks that having a routine means you are emotionally detached from your baby.

Leaving that tiny baby to cry was so wrong.I agree with controlled crying but not so young.Also telling that dad not to kiss his baby?? She was like a bloody robot.

i know that, tori. i wasn't saying you were pro-CV (you're not that mad ), just pointing out that they do deal with the co-sleeping thing in the next ep.

Am trying not to get too worked up (and failing). But did love the bit where Cruella said her methods had been around since the 1800s.

Notoriously well-adjusted, those Victorians...

stealth thats what worries me too. I have been known to hit DH in the face 'passing instruments' in my sleep.

bles you LL - that's me! Have complained to ofCom - cannot bear to think of babies without cuddles - may wake mine up to snuggle her now.....

Sadly there was a woman recently who suffocated her baby after falling asleep on the sofa feeding.

huinker, does falling asleep on the sofa include falling asleep while feeding (both of us!) - me sitting up with head on cushion at top of sofa? Seems safe enough to me, but I've always wondered this.

I think CV needs a big cuddle......

I've complained, to both C4 and Ofcom.
The more who di it, the better.

I think that the least Channel 4 should do is state that some of CV's methods are controversial. The fact that she wears a uniform, bangs on about how long her method has been around and speaks with 'nanny-like' authority could make new parents believe that hers is the most credible method.

Wow - my best friend was approached to appear on this programme when she was pregnant with her daughter last autumn.

She had decided she wanted a routine, but pulled out of the programme a couple of weeks before she was due.

WHAT A LUCKY ESCAPE!

I can't even bear to think of the nightmare it would have put my lovely friend and her gorgeous baby girl through.

Aitch I'm not in favour of this CV woman, merely pointing out the information I have been given on breastfeeding and co- sleeping from my local NHS by my mw. I'm not slating co-sleeping, although as you know it wouldn't be my own preference.

Okay I am at the part where she is sitting downstairs with her baby screaming. God I want to go upstairs to that baby! So baby is miserable and mum is miserable, result Claire!

I don't follow the logic NAO. Because atrocities happen elsewhere in thw world we are not to get exercised about those happening under our noses? her advise, if followed, may damage children emotionally and, potentially, physically. What can we be angry about, if we can't be angry about that?

Oh, that's patronising in the extreme, NAO!

FFS, why are you on this thread then? Why aren't you doing missionary work somewhere?

From the blog link psoted by Jenkeywoo:

"Claire advises feeding babies only every four hours and not feeding them during the night. Most very young babies need feeding more often than this. Previous attempts to use such regimes with newborn babies have led to terrifying cases of dehydration and failure to thrive. (Parents may find it instructive to do a bit of research into Ezzo's methods in the USA and the results that these have had.) My blood ran cold when I read that she was using these methods with premature babies. This is very dangerous indeed; I am not exaggerating when I say that these methods could kill a baby."

NAO, I must have missed the memo that says we're only allowed to get angry about one thing at a time.

Look, since you are all on here, can I lure some of you onto this thread to chat to a knackered mum of 3, she's in Germany and her husband's in Iraq again, I think she needs a big old MN love-in .

Complain in 3 ways:

Ofcom: www.ofcom.org.uk/complain/

Channel 4 online: link

Channel 4 email direct viewersenquiries@channel4.co.uk

Plus these people have some sort of campaign going too: socialbaby.blogspot.com/

I think we should all complain at all of these and maybe they will take this awful woman off our screens or at least add some warning and official guidelines to subsequent programs so that othe first time parents don't damge their babies in this way. Except NAO of course - who is related to CV perhaps?

But how will those babies end up NAO? It all starts on Day 1.

yes there are NAO. I've yet to see any programmes purporting those practices to be A Good Thing though.

We all know terrible things happen all over the world, every day. That doesn't make it ok to neglect our babies.

Well that just kills any debate then doesn't it NAO.

god there are girls beingcircumcised in africa
groomed for the sex trade in russia

babies on a tv program swaddled in a pram

just try to look at the bigger picture

The "co-sleeping baby death" statistics are usually all lumped in with the "fell asleep on sofa and suffocated baby in cushions/dropped baby on hearth statistics though Co-sleeping with a baby on a sofa or in an armchair is a huge no.

Safe co-sleeping is perfectly fine, IMO and IME.

I was very worried about co sleeping till I tried it
Don't do it usually, just as a one off, but apparently I can pin DH down in my sleep if he tries to go to the loo in the night

non-point, nao. she's being presented as a credible source of baby advice, when she's actually defying guidelines left, right and centre.

Aitch How can people be so totally disconnected from babies to think like that?

Tori - i think its more about the baby hearing your breathing than you hearing theirs isnt it?

Tori, it's not just about not hearing the baby breathe. The baby hears YOU breathing and regulates its own breathing accordingly.

Links as requested

Email Channel 4 - viewersenquiries@channel4.co.uk

ofcom

But NAO if it's on the telly it's ok to do in RL.

There will be some poor colicy baby somewhere left to cry his heart out, alone, without any comfort because his parents heard this woman say it was the right thing to do.

young babies can't feel pain
ffs
i've sworn more on this thread than ever before

tori32, i've seen the second programme, the continuum woman takes a bit of a beating about the co-sleeping. in the sense that CV makes out that 'loads' of babies die every year because of it and then can't back that up with any actual data.

NAO - i think you can credit some of us television viewers with having some discernment re editing and cutting of hours of footage to make a show. This one is cetainly generating alot of attention - so if that was the intention behind the programme - they have succeeded. what seems to be of concern and the reason for complaints is that some of the methods shown could in fact be dnagerous and go against evidence based research.

Newborn babies shouldn't be made to be subjects of "entertainment" programmes though.

Did they volunteer to go through this?

"she is hardly Idi Amin"
I would like to make an appropriate response to that, but the law of libel prevents me

can someone give me a link to ofcom?

Good link here from social baby campaign against Claire Verity - socialbaby.blogspot.com/2007/05/stop-claire-verity.html

tori32, the advice about sleeping in the same room is so that baby will hear you breathe and be "motivated to breathe" so to speak, not vice versa.

Missbumpy, I agree- she reminded me of me the first few days after ds was born (well OK, first few weeks). I think she'll be alright though, but she could have done with some better advice I think.

its not my idea of child rearing

she is hardly Idi Amin

i think folk on here sometimes lack perspective on what is afterall an entertainment program on television

pesha, that thinking still exists, rather unbelievably. when dd was getting heel tests done i was told by the midwife that young babies couldn't feel pain. 'why is she crying, then?' i asked.

I just complained to ofcom too! Programme made me cry!

I actually felt my nipples tingle when listening to that poor baby crying.

I haven't breast fed for almost 6 years but my primal instinct made me want to nurture that little one in the absence of it's mother.

Point taken about FSIDS, however, on the flip side the continuum parenting recommends sleeping in the same bed. The NHS guidelines for new mothers suggest that it is best to have them in the same room, but not in your bed. If you were soundly asleep do you think you would hear if the baby wasn't breathing? Its so quiet that its unlikely, so the room I would say for me personally would be irrelevant. Its more cruel regarding leaving it outdoors for hours, crying for hours with no comfort and no cuddles/ eye contact IMHO.

NAO of course the programme has been edited to make CV look bad - and I'm very glad about it - but please explain to me the context in which leaving a baby outside in the freezing cold to cry would not be an insane thing to do?

NAO, you could've had cameras in my house 24/7 after I had the DSs and you wouldn't have been able to edit something that looked as appalling as what I've witnessed tonight with CV's treatment of the babies and the parents.

I've not just seen this programme, I've read other things in CV's OWN WORDS about her methods and from people who've used her.

Please credit me with slightly more intelligence than a kneejerk hysterical reaction.

what's the link to complain to?

Even if the whole thing is staged and as soon as the cameras stopped rolling, the Mum rushed upstairs, the programme is still suggesting that CV's method is OK. Which it clearly isn;t.

It may be edited and cut but from what CV herself has written it is a fair representation of her methods. And in some ways it is irrelevant as to whether it has been edited to make it appear a certain way - the message to parents is that this is an 'approved' (by a nutter) way of treating a baby.

Blimey, I've just watched the programme and I'm quite horrified .

I'm 36 weeks into first pregnancy and I haven't read any books on how to bring up a baby. I was sort of planning to wing it. Seeing scary 1950s strict routine lady has totally freaked me out. Just had a chat with mum (who was into Spock) and she's reassured me a bit.

Is it just me or did anyone else feel really sorry for the lady trying the continuum method who was really struggling with breast feeding? She just looked so fragile and sad and tired

no comments about personal hygiene or rockets please.

NAO, do you really think that she's actually caring and fluffy and that the program has been edited to make her look bad? Did they make her say that babies don't want to be cuddled? Did they fake her saying "no more than 10 minutes holding them"?

I misse dthe program - does she really suggest leaving a new-born for 12 hours? without feeding?

that's a non-point, NAO. it's on television for people to watch. people who are thinking of having babies. and judging by the Daily mail piece linked to halfway down the thread, the mother of the twins has declared CV a godsend and says the routines worked. so i think it's worrying, really.

God! So mad I can't spell.

MINUTES.

have complained, so still

In the days of Truby King didnt they also believe that babies dont feel pain? No anaesthetic used on babies in hospitals? I'm sure i remember hearing that from several sources but can't remember details. I thought things had moved on abit from then.

I found this really genuinely upsetting. The thought of a baby learning not to cry sickens me. I wanted to shout at the tv AT WHAT COST AT WHAT COST AT WHAT FUCKING COST.

Sling woman seemed lovely and looked like I felt when she was talking to CV.

That woman is NUTS!

I'm with Harrisey - dc3 is practically grafted to me and I am loving the bonding. I tried all the routnins with dc1 - made me ill with pnd etc etc, went with my feelings with dc2 - much better - dc3 - best yet - ntohing but instinct - why are we encouraged to ignore it?

It sounds dramatic but I felt sick when watching that little newborn being left to cry. This is emotionally abusive and such people should be reprimanded as such and not be allowed to practice.

Seriously this routine approach consttute child abuse. This childs brain will not develop as it should therefore compromising their capacity to develop empathy and social understanding, pre-disposing them hugely to the development of mental health problems in later life including psycopathy.

I think this will be the first time I've ever complained about a TV programme.

My HV was the same with DD at 4 weeks old. She was "manipulative" and should be left to cry. Needless to say I left the surgery and put in a complaint about her. Saw her in the Indian the other night and she still avoids me!!
It is the most natural thing in the world to go to your baby when they cry. You are their mother, they need comfort and that is your job.

I nearly cried it made me so sad. These poor parents will probably look back on these early days, ignoring and neglecting their children with guilt and shame for the rest of their lives. It's so wrong, in so many ways.

this is more GF hysteria

it is TV

EDITED and CUT

BITCH

I've read some attachment theory and if there is any risk of the experiment being real the programme should be axed. I was brought up like this in 1972. My mother took instruction from my paternal grandfather - a Truby King advocate. I DO NOT have a strong sense of self, believe me. Much helped by several years of therapy thankfully. I have never felt so strongly about any programme, ever and I am a card holding telly addict. I want to effing demonstrate outside channel 4. I'd bloody raid the BBC news room about this. I'm desperate to stop any more of this regime being inflicted on the babies.

I've complained to C4. I'm fucking disgusted. I'd like ten minuted with that stupid bich. I'd punch "it's" fucking lights out.

sorry for typos have had a glass of wine after bf, cuddle and rock to sleep

So sad that those mothers were stifling their (correct) instincts and putting the words of a peroxide stranger over those instincts.

Their first night back from hospital - ruined. I hope "being on the telly" was worth it.

Also the smugness about the day old baby sleeping alot - dd slept for her first 2 weeks and I thought the whole baby thing wasnt so hard. Then she really woke up and yelled every evening for 4 months. But that was my fault surely as we verged on the Continuum concept/attachment parenting rather than a strict routine..

Wasn't there loads of stuff a few years bck abot how awful conditions were in Romanian orphanages because children weren't being cuddled? Just left in their cots between inadequate feeding.

I know there were an awful lot of other things wrong there, but it was always the lack of touch that I remembered. There's research to show that if you give an orphan monkey a wire mummy monkey doll with milk in the teat, and a soft cuddly mummy monkey doll, the baby monkey will drink the milk and then go back to the cuddly toy for comfort.

babies dont need to be 'independent' for goodness sake. They're not 'manipulative'.

Personally I got more 'tribal' (dh would probably say 'feral') with each child. I am now a certified lentil weaver.

if the baby is born at 7.01am does it have to wait 3h59mins fot its first feed?
That's a serious question.

yes, I wish people would accept that for a baby to cry is normal and not a sign of maternal "failure". If you think about it, to be alone in the world all of a sudden after 9 months of warmth, constant nutrition, hearing Mummy's heartbeat probably is quite stressful. I don't think you need to be the most empathetic person in the world to understand that.

NAO, you really think this is an OK way to treat a newborn baby?

Or any person, actually?

No eye contact, no physical contact, restricted food?

I seriously had a mother like this in my first post natal group - she said 'the midwife told me never to give in to him from day1, beacuse even at days old, babies are manipulative' Dh banned me from going to the group in the end - sad faming at the mouth wasn't an attractive quality for me.....

forgot to add no matter how much C4 are paying me

peerrrleeaaase

i complained about advice contradicting:
SIDS - sleep in same room
NSPCC - neglect
WHO & DOH - breastfeeding

If anyone had told me to ignore my screaming newborn and not to cuddle her or kiss her constantly and stick her out in the garden for hours on her own I would tell her to get the f* out my house. Sorry I would.

Why complain about the program? because the program is presenting someone with no medical or professional qualifications giving advice that is contrary to official dept of Health guidelines on SIDS with no disclaimers or mention of the official advice for a start. Not to mention that it is showing actual examples of child abuse. Clearly irresponsible broadcasting.

From the NSPCC:

All babies cry and some babies cry a lot. This is perfectly normal. Babies can't tell us what they want, so they cry to attract our attention when they need something. Often you will know exactly why your baby is crying. It may be from hunger, because of a wet or dirty nappy, from tiredness, or perhaps from frustration at not being able to reach a toy. But sometimes it can seem as if nothing will stop your baby crying. This can be an anxious time. You may worry that there is something seriously wrong with your baby, or be afraid that he's never going to stop.

Helping your baby settle

Most parents have favourite ways to help their baby settle. If your baby cries inconsolably, you might like to try some of these suggestions.

* Let your baby suckle. If she is bottle-fed try giving her a dummy. Some babies find sucking their thumb soothing instead.
* Cuddle or stroke your baby.
* Hold him close, gently rocking and swaying, talking and singing to him.
* Gently rock your baby in the pram or take her out for a walk or drive.
* Find things to look at or listen to - music, a baby rattle, or a mobile above the cot.
* Give your baby a warm bath.


Could someone tell CV those things?

chubyscotsburd, maybe they should make her cuddle a baby - she'd probably disappear into a puff of smoke

In the book 'Why Love Matters' it says that all babies, including newborns need to be held and cuddled in order for their brains to develop normally so they grow up to be emotionally and mentally healthy adults. That CV woman was clearly only attending to the babies physical needs (actually she wasn't even doing that as babies are hungry when they're hungry and not necessarily every 4 hours)and so I would classify her method as child abuse/neglect and she is nothing more than a criminal. I felt sick just watching her.

because her advice makes it impossible for people to bf as per the WHO recommendations and ignores the recommendation to sleep with the child until 6 months. there should have been some acknowledgement of that, and i hope there will be by next week.

tori, because it is experimenting with human beings who don't have a say and CV is giving out advice which completely contravenes advice from FSIDS. Aside from the fact the woman is barking mad and has no credentials.

i made a complaint about the show to Channel 4, but only to say that official guidelines (especially re cot death) should have been mentioned when the baby was being left for 12hrs in a different room without feeding etc, not just the 'experts' opinions given.

or how to neglect and starve your baby???
oh hang on, it is

I hope Social Services will be investigating the family using her methods.

Well. I was going to read this thread but as my breastfed-on-demand, co-sleeping, permanantly carried baby who has no concept of routine has decided to fall asleep I don't think I'll manage all 600-odd posts. If only I'd listened to Ms Verity I might be enjoying a glass of wine and reading them all while he cried his little eyes out in the garden. O woe is me.

The woman is evidently mad. Amd WHY or HOW that mum sat and wept while leaving her poor baby howling for a cuddle at a mere day or so old - she actually said "I know it's for her own good" at one point ... I hope the dad cracks and shoves their Silver Cross up the witch's arse. Sideways.

Why would you complain about the program? What CV is advocating is child abuse, it really is. Would C4 be allowed to show a programme about how to be a paedophile?!!

I have complained to both organisations. I am so appalled.

I watched this programme despite my foreboding becasue you can't complain about something if you haven't seen it! Having now seen it, am not just going to complain, am going to Horseferry Road with a stack of molotov cocktails tomorrow

NaO "( its entertainment remember mumsnetters - dont get confused with real life) "

But they are real babies. real human beings

complained

who gives a cramped about cats you just don't leave a one day old baby crying outside in the cold, jesus crhist i didn't know that people could be so stupid please tell me this is not happening. If one of my neighbours would do that I would call child protection agency in a flash.

Why would you complain about the programme its self? Its putting forward all options, not just the crazy CV one. Anyone with half a brain will pick the method they want. I have to say I thought CV was going to be the same as GF, it clearly isn't. She doesn't advocate cruelty and acknowledges that babies do need attention and love/ stimulation even with routine.

I don't think so either Tamum,

Right - just complained to Ofcom - am so disgusted by what i have seen - outraged!

Well if getting them to sleep is the only measure of success I have well and truly failed with dd. 17 months and still a full nights sleep is all but a fond memory. That is probably because I cuddled her and gave her eye contact and generally spoiled her with affection

I have two cats and they have never tried to sit on my baby. They think he's a little alien and are a bit scared of him.

Foxes though - wouldn't be so sure

allbuggiedout- done!

Do you think they were just acting and went and cuddled their babies as soon as the cameras stopped rolling then NotanOtter? I don't.

I found cat nets didn't really stop the weight of the cat from leaning it down onto the baby.
They are also attracted to the smell of milk from a baby.
This is very worrying.

Edam- in the snow, I hope she shovelled her husbands head in for making her leave her baby in the snow.

I have to go , I fel sick at the thought of all this.

HAs there ever been a recorded case of a cat smothering a baby?

Thought it was just an urban myth although I did use a cat net on dd's pram but now I think of it I cant remember ever reading or hearing of a true account of it actually happening?

Sorry to go off subject just interested

iwon't dignify the next one by my viewing it. It should be taken off air...

Dont understand the obsession with "getting back to normal" and pretending you dont have a baby. why have one then?

Agree with morning paper why is getting them sleeping seen as the only measure of success? Just so literal and utterly missing the point.

Getting flashbacks to spending the w/e earlier this year with a friend who fed her 2 week old every 4 hours only. The tiny thing was mewling with hunger but she just looked at her watch and said "no food for 40 minutes". My dh was in tears after they left.

Thought Jerry Hall had more sense than to hire someone like that.

didn't the dad say to the seven year old something like 'she is good at her job thats why she gets paid alot of money' stupid twat

Yes, Edam, I've read her story, I'm sure

I think if you're forced to be that out of tune with your babies, you go against instinct.

I did laugh wryly when she asked the other Clare how long her "method" had been around. Ignorant or what?!

Oh, btw - I read an article in the Times comparing each of these methods - CV had no opinion on older babies, because she doesn't deal with them, she fucks 'em up and moves on to the next cash mountain newborn.

CV was bleating about being bullied by the NCT who were saying similar things to this thread. Aw, bless.

what you think they were fake babies being damaged?

maybe cv DOES have children, she just ignores them..

Yes, but hunkermunker, the hamster might try to manipulate you into feeding it and giving it the occasional bit of attention.

Very manipulative, hamsters.

( its entertainment remember mumsnetters - dont get confused with real life)

Watched programme in parts. Not sure I can watch the next one.

<<wanders off to complain>>

The only thing "it" is is child abuse. I cannot believe that Channel 4 have commissioned this "experiment" with babies who cannot possibly give their consent.

I hope the NSPCC were watching.
How F**ed up CVs babies will be as adults.

I am sooo
Those poor babies.

What a horrible evil child hating woman. Lock a baby in a room in the dark for hours to scream in fear and abandonment, leave it outside in the freezing cold between daytime feeds. No cuddles. No eye contact.
Off to contact NSPCC myself.

I am so

nite - going off to lavish kisses and unending love on my sleeping (without rigourous heartless intervention) precious, beautiful 12mo and my amazing, adorable, intelligent 9yo.

The woman should be prosecuted. I am disgusted. The babies in her charge have essentially suffered abuse in the name of entertainment and I for one will not be watching again.

Does Cv have any professional qualifications, any at all?

Yes, does anyone remember those NSPCC commercials where the baby is standing up in its cot and the voiceover says, "Billy doesn't bother to cry anymore because he knows no one will come"

CRUELTY TO CHILDREN per NSPCC!

FFS

Never mind the foxes, there are a few babies each year who die when cats sit on them while they are out in the garden in prams. The cats like the warmth, and don't care that the baby suffocates. Get a cat net, at the very least!

I'm all for outside time, but why not just go for a walk together, rather than trying to pretend you haven't just had a baby, which seems to be what the CV method is about.

Listen to your 7 year old people!! Am and

Spot check here: what did you all do when that "manipulative little creature" as CV would have it cried?

Personally, if they had been fed, clean bums and I could see nothing was wrong then I wouldn't always pick them up for a cuddle but I would stroke them, talk to them and generally comfort them that mummy was there.

If a baby is not shown love and security would that not lead to anxious children and then adults?

i mothered mine

Email Channel 4 - viewersenquiries@channel4.co.uk

also complain to Ofcom:

www.ofcom.org.uk/complain/

actually, before ds1 was born i might have believed what she was saying as right AND on day 5 I did leave baby to cry hungry coz i was just too damn exhausted! dh cuddled him tho

the mum said if she went outside she would need gloves and a scarf

But in all fairness how could you do that to a MOTHER? I mean the mums on the CV method are obviously dim bastards (especially the one on dc 2) to listen to that nasty bitch but still....

Add your complaint here and maybe they will PregnantGrrl!

I once saw a documentary with an elderly lady who had used the Truby King methods espoused by Claire Verity back when they were first introduced. Documentary was about something else entirely, but this woman's story was so tragic... her husband was v. into TK and made her leave the baby outside even when he was crying his heart out - even when it snowed. Poor baby caught pneumonia and died. The lady had desperately wanted to go to her baby, but it 'wasn't allowed'.

Anyone want to abduct a baby? Just wait outside a house with CV's car out the front. You'll have AMPLE opportunity.

Hunker
That is sooooooo sickening, and poignant.........I have a lump in my throat.

Think I need to go and kiss my girls and vow never to watch that woman .

how could you do that to a baby....especially when there is so much evidence to show it is wrong not to mention the mothers instinct.

WHY OH WHY have a baby if you are going to ignore it? am amazed she has people who pay her for advice - shows how selfish and ignorant some people are.

gotta go - feel guttted for those poor babies and stupid gullible parents. surely instinct would take over and the 'rules' woluld go out fo the window. Fuck CV, fuck parenting manuals. sorry for language - feel sooo soooo angry at heartless, childless, fetid, bitter rankerous witch that I cannot speak

What an upsetting programme. And what a hideous woman.

How to complain to Channel 4:

You can contact Viewer Enquiries as follows:

Phone: 0845 076 0191 (lo-call number)

We’re open from 9am – 9pm Monday to Friday and from 10am – 7pm on weekends and public holidays

or you can write to:

Channel 4 Enquiries
PO Box 1058
Belfast
BT1 9DU

And, frankly, if I was left to cry for the three or so hours between each feed, I'd have given up bothering by 12 weeks.

So yes, it probably can "work" but I think you fuck up your baby in the process.

Still, at least you can "get your life back" eh?

If you're going to have a creature in the house that you feed to a schedule and don't cuddle much, get a hamster, ffs.

Um, do actually think she said to leave the baby outside! No reason to be with it. And didn't one of the dads say just how FREEZING cold it was outside?

It will be a freakin miracle if she doesn't kill one of those babies!

Maternity Nurse is not a professional title, definitely not. She has NO qualifications whatsoever. Her advice is dangerous and in blatant contradiction of years - decades - of research. And she bought that fucking uniform from a fancy dress shop, I bet.

Come back, Gina. All is forgiven.

or whilst you bounce it in a bouncy chair

Good point about life back after 20 yrs, I just meant a little bit of life, like the odd night out, or time out in the day.
Don't see why you can't have a glass of wine while your baby sleeps in a basket/pram/carseat in the room with you.

Well I continuum-ed my ds and Spock / Continuumed my dd and loved most of it...the CV method is heartbreaking. How cuold you do that to a baby?

put your newborn outside and make sure you shut the door, you don't want to be lsitening to it wtf

I don't shut the door when my 4 year old is in the garden

allbuggiedout- i am surprised they haven't mentioned anything about safe sleeping advice yet too(for any of them really, because the continuum style is co sleeping aswell isn't it?)

I think C4 have a lot to answer to actually. Experimenting like this on vulnerable new mothers. I mean, if they had wanted routine, they could have got SWSNBN in couldn't they?

(lol at the fact that SWSNBN now seems like the voice of reason)

I posted this the other day on another thread:

I read this when I had a tiny DS. I found it very powerful. It's from the Continuum Concept.

"He awakes in a mindless terror of the silence, the motionlessness. He screams. He is afire from head to foot with want, with desire, with intolerable impatience. He gasps for breath and screams until his head is filled with throbbing with the sound. He screams until his chest aches, until his throat is sore. He can bear the pain no more and his sobs weaken and subside. He listens. He opens and closes his fist. He rolls his head from side to side. Nothing helps. It is unbearable. He begins to cry again, but it is too much for his strained throat; he soon stops. He waves his hands and kicks his feet. He stops, able to suffer, unable to think, unable to hope. He listens. Then he falls asleep again."

OK I have just seen it. CV is a scary woman even by my standards! I am all for routine but depriving a baby of attention from birth is awful. . I did do routine, but also played with my baby and cuddled her whenever she was awake. No point having DC if not. I also didn't completely ignore her when she cried if she woke after a couple of hours on day one . I would always go in to check her in the early days to make sure she was clean, not hungry, ill or just needed reassurance. I also wouldn't dream of parking her outside on her own and shutting the door . Likewise it would drive me nuts to have a baby constantly attached to me day and night. There is middle ground here.

My ds is 4 weeks old and i cant believe what i have just seen , them poor babies!

it's not right this crap should be broadcast - maybe we should all contact Ofcom...

I don't anticipate getting my life back for 20 years or so - it was in the contract, wasn't it?

to be outside, not be left outside

How on earth can Channel 4 show that without mentioning FSIDS advice about having baby in your room for 6 months??? Expect Channel 4 will receive a multitude of complaints about the programme, but have added mine about lack of safety warning. Am fuming.......

Oh CV would have hated me, two babies in one moses basket next to my bed for 3 months, then in a cot bed together for another few months and finally into their own room at about 8-9 months.

She has destroyed a very precious time for those mums. If someone had told me I could only have 10-minutes cuddles I would have slapped them.

Does anyone know if 'Maternity Nurse' is a protected title ie do you need certain qualifications in order to be able to use it? If not it should be. I can't believe that so called professionals can give such awful advice

i mean i have i cant type roght after watching such a cruel thing

ok not dangerous to be left outside (as long as you respond to their cries..), but I hate her so much I just want to criticise everything she says

Oh my dear lord! I haven't read the comments on here but HAD to come on and speak my utter disgust and dismay at Channel 4 and the ridiculous 1950's version of childrearing that they think is acceptable. I felt sorry for the poor parents duped into following such an outrageous routine with a new baby! To leave a newborn outside for 3 hours is child abuse - what if a dog or fox came by and attacked t he baby - it's not unheard of! Also a newborn has no other instincts than primal - it needs feeding, caring, winding, change of temperature etc - it doesn't know any emotions such as blackmail or emotional manipulation but just has needs that must be met. To treat a newborn with so much disdain was heart breaking. Made me feel sick to my stomach.

OMG, i had 4weeks old, and i and dh cant believe those parents agreed to do so with cv woman.
i think she is very dangerious. i agree with hunker, she should not allowed on tv or etc..

Also it's very sad (at the other end) that they are saying you can't formula feed AND do the continuum thing

You can still formula feed and be an attachment parent FFS!

I CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT I HAVE JUST SEEN!! I just can't believe that people can do this. Surely it's forbidden under some European laws and considered not only child abuse but serious breech of basic human rights. I now have a ginormous string of sware words going through my mind and I can't speal proper. I'm going upstairs to give emormous kisses and kiddles to my kids..

Bit selfish to be thinking of getting your life back when the baby is only just born. I never thought of trying to get mine back til they were about 4 mths or so, which was impossible with DD2 anyway as she wouldn't take a bottle.

lol at morning paper.

I do wonder whether they're going to get the guts to tell her to F off soon and where to shove that manual.

I dont think its dangerous for a baby to be left outside at all.

I wouldnt want to leave my newborn crying though.

> I don't think she's going to win any followers tonight.

Sadly that isn't true

People will see the mother-of-twins having a party while her children sleep and think that is the Right Way To Do It

Did they hunker? I emailed them but then forgot all about. What a bloody relief. Not just cruel but dangerous.

manipulative creatures wtf?

where can i complain - how do i register my extreme disgust?

I'd have bitched slapped her out my house and down the street and locked the door while I cuddled my baby.

Even GF said in that article someone linked that letting a newborn go for 4 hrs without bfing can be dangerous, or feeding in general I guess. I have a friend whose ds ate like nothing you've ever seen. She had so much milk her boobs were huge and he was still hungry. I think she put him on hungry baby formula at about 4 weeks when she couldn't physically bf him any more, and that only seemed to help a bit.
This is all very dangerous. I too think the parents will regret it.

Iam going to start running around my neighbourhood looking for crying babies left outside doorways so I can steal them and press them to my naked breasts and stuff them in slings

ratfly, I think they were allowed one night feed.
At one point I did actually wonder whether she would suggest a slap if the newborn was crying.

And, she said 'Ah' to a bloody fox. Only glimpse of affection in the whole programe - but to a fox.

Yeah, it's really safe leaving your baby outside for ages. Afterall, there are no foxes, stray dogs, cats or strange people lurking around.

I don't think she's going to win any followers tonight.

Getting your life back = having a glass of wine.

Never realised it was so easy.

I dont think its dangerous for a baby to be left outside at all.

I wouldnt want to leave my newborn crying though.

sad, sad, very sad.
it is worrying that others might be watching that and think it is a good idea to shove a newborn baby out of sight and mind for hours. who in their right mind would sign up for such a thing and then continue with it when the baby is screaming.

lanismum- i know. i'm thinking about the first few months with DS, all the cooing / kissing / cuddling / closeness. Now he dances on the coffee table and licks my face

you can't get those times back. What are those parents going to think?- oh darling, do you recall that first night, drinking wine while i sobbed because the baby was crying. Good times.

Sorry BandofMothers I know it was a bit emotive, but that was what she looked like, bless her. I would have broken into the house and gone and cuddled her myself if I could.

ratfly, I just hope that most new mothers will think CV is completely and utterly barking mad and steer well clear.

I'm watching this on Sky+ and I have to say CV is very rough in handling the babies. Poor wee souls!

So, baby screams for ages (over baby monitor), baby stops crying, parents, having had lovely dinner and glass of wine as life is now back to normal breathe sigh of relief, go to bed NOT via baby's separate room (because why would you go and look at your baby) and in the morning they go in to wake their baby up and they can't. Because "it" has died.

THAT'S why CV's approach is dangerous. And it's one of the reasons why I (and others on here) emailed the Baby Show to get her OFF their stage in October. And thank FUCK they agreed.

Kerrymum, but if you go to them they'll learn that when they cry their parents run to attend to them. Apparently that's bad. Because then they'll cry every time they have a need, and trust their parents to look after them. So it might be a year or 2 before you can host a party that goes on until 4am.

I taped this fully intending to watch it but caught the last minute and it upset me so much I don't think I can bear to watch the rest. It's going to make me want to do her damage isn't it?

kerrymum - it makes me shudder. dd is 9yo and ds is 12mo and I still go on read alert when either of them cry. Whatever time of day or night it is...

Feel sick to my stomach, that was horrible. Feel so sorry for all those tiny babies who've suffered under regimes like that. Ghastly woman.

I'm now going to have a little cry that thanks to ex-h I won't have the chance to ever experience baby days again.

I am really concerned that mums-to-be might see this programme and think that cv's methods are in some way ok.
It must be dangerous for a newborn to be left without food for 12 hours, to be left outside, and psychologically dangerous to leave them to cry. For channel 4 to give her airtime is wrong.

And what's the obsession with having a glass of wine?

If i wanted one i had one whether Ds had his angelic innocent little face pressed up against my niple or not! It is possible to drink and cuddle, bf etc!

lol at sheeple

Not according to what we saw BandofMothers. The mother was upset listening to her cry, but CV was sitting there encouraging her not to go.

What kind of idiot freakin mother just sits there and doesn't go to her screaming baby?

She might have been crying but at least she could have a glass of wine
If she had a bottle or 2 she might pass out and not care any more

just feel so sad that the cv familys will never get the first 3 months of their baby's life back

I am so glad I never read any books when dts were born.

They slept from just after 10pm to around 6-7am from about 4 weeks onward because I let them sleep in the same cot, beside our bed.

No one told me to do that, I just did it. Why do so many sheeple trust someone else to tell them how to deal with their own baby?

Save your money and when advice is needed come onto this site that is what I tell anyone who asks me.

She looks like one of those Angels of DEATH that you get occassionally on hospital wards.

winestein I almost had my first ever MN swear
But then I deleted it because I remembered SWMNBN
But TBH I think MN will be quite a way down the list of forums slagging her off

BoM, not on camera they didn't. The mother just cried.

Bloody awful.

Actually feel a bit sick at the trembling. Is such a good descriptive word for the way a distressed baby cries. I almost welled up at the thought.

so next week so advises the parents that foxes wont go near their baby.
she is not just a baby expert but now she is a wild life expert.
I hope the foxes do go near the baby, and take it away from the parents and bring it up to be a little wild fox baby like the Jungle Book.

i could not give a flying fudge what CV makes of these comments she is am out and out cold bitch...........imho

ROFL Hunker

lol hunker.

So glad that's over. I don't think I could take anymore. Don't suppose anyone knows who did it in Silent Witness?

Yes, what kind of cry do you ignore?
The grumpy cry? The I've-woken-up-and-still-tired-cry? The I'm-in-excrutiating-pain shriek?

Hunker, PMSL.

But to little baby trembling with no one there. I am not watching, but can imagine the trembly cry and purple face, and little fists curled up and vibrating cos it's crying so hard.

Please tell me one of the parents went up to it????

Ohh. I am watching this. Those techniques are just absolutely inhumane

(that was ever so carefully worded, I can tell you)

hunker - lol!

rofl at morningpaper

Now surely Channel Four has solicitors?

Surely, they must realize that this kind of approach is downright DANGEROUS. I mean what if the baby is ILL? How the hell are you supposed to know?

mornign paper - a small 'thing'. she is despicable. I actually feel hatred .

CV is letting something very tiny control her life though.

Her brain.

hey, even GF and I can agree on something...

The worrying thing is that this programme puts this forward as though these are three "normal" options for baby-rearing

When actually CV is verging on the psychopathic

That poor little newborn baby, trembling upstairs with no-one coming to her when she cries

TheJen - if you have sky you can see it NOW on Channel 4 + 1 - number 135.

mmj - you are not alone in your views. she should be fecking slain

my god- even gina thinks she's wrong-what does 8that* say???

"You can't let a thing that small control your life"

Maybe she says this to her boyfriends which is why she has never had children?

Glad to see GF disowns her

Stealth, maybe that is WHY Diana cuddled other people's babies???

i havent been so relieved to hear the credits roll since my first viewing of Silence of hte lambs?!

I would never work for a family who said they wanted their baby sleeping through the night by so many weeks/months!