We are on the waiting list for therapy and reading up about it like loons, but we are feeling really bleak about it. It's such a fucking pointless, ridiculous evolutionary blip, and it's turning her into a ghost of herself. Anyone got any cheery stories about recovery to bolster me? Normally more resolute, but just tonight feeling crap about it.

och no, sorry. but i've a <squeeze> for you if that will help at all. sounds awful, i hope there's something to help her soon.

how old is she ? am just off to bed, but will check in tomorrow- have had OCD for years but there is a way through it - not all gloomy - don't despair !

yes. god friends ds1 had a real problem a year / 18 months ago.... has responded to seeing therapist really well and is doing brilliantly. professional help is both necessary and really effective. how old is she?

I am more or less completely recovered from moderate-with-severe-patches OCD during my teens. Without therapy.

I am so sorry, for your dd and you. It's an absolute bugger of a condition, but has helped make me really quite tough in many ways. I really don't want to write much on here right now, but you can CAT me if you like.

before I go...yes, it's a bloody horrible and pointless thing to have and makes life very,very difficult but it can be treated ...

She is 9. She has severe nut allergy which - as she has got older - she has become more aware/more scared about. All her rituals are death protection rituals, and they are now taking up about 1/3 of her time. I just sat with her and we wrote them all down to give to the therapist. It completely did my head in, how intricate, designed and utterly fucking pointless they were.

No experience of ocd in children myself but I do know what it's like to have a new diagnosis for a child and to be stuck in that horrible place of brain over-load from all the info you find on-line. How old is your dd? It must be really hard for you all. I do hope she gets the therapy soon and things get easier for you all.

Have you looked at hypnosis at all? When I was pregnant I had ante-natal depression and some OCD symptoms. I had some hynotherapy and it really helped, I know my hypnotherapist was able to treat children from school age.

oh, your poor dd, it must be hellish being trapped there. I'm glad you're able to sit down and go through it all with her but I can only imagine how painful it must be for you.

Oh good. Berolina and MAS I "know" you slightly on here and you both come over as most excellent, well adjusted people. I just keep being scared she is not going to have a life at all. B I may well CAT you. Am now off to have bath as am taking her and her sister on holiday tomorrow pm. Will check in tomorrow morning.

Thank you.

she can talk through her fears with objective but empathetic outsider..... who will not have your (understandable) fears and anxieties about all this. friend's dd was given lots of space to talk about her feelings and helpful practical strategies to help with her routines / rituals etc. which were real strain on her and her family.... she is 13 now, 10 ish when problems started. thought (in her case0 to be linked to fears of growing up / long simmering issues re separation anxiety..... good luck.

I had OCD from the age of about 8/9 to about 10/11. Can't remember exactly. Lots and lots of rituals and mantras etc. It took up a lot of space in my mind and time in my day when I should have been playing. The obsessive thoughts were also very distressing. I believed I needed to complete these rituals and mantras to protect my mother from harm - possibly linked to the fear of being left with my father (he was going through some difficult things himself.) I didn't see anyone about it and didn't tell anyone as I believed talking about it would put her at extra risk and negate all the good the rituals did iyswim.
With me, I strangely just sort of stopped doing it and have no idea how. I have spoken to many (very happy and successful) people who experienced similar things when they were growing up- one friend saw a psychologist, the rest, like me, said they just sort of stopped and can't remember how. I work in mental health now and seem to remember reading something about it being common in children. I don't work with children myself but know that OCD can be treated successfully with CBT.
I don't know if that is helpful! What I wanted to say was, it is horrible, but it is treatable AND having this sort of thing when you are young doesn't spell disaster for the future.

good morning ! just wanted to catch you before you go away... first of all am so sorry that your dd is going through this - it is an awful condition I do know that. I echo what peneloperabbit says about CBT - it was the only thing that really worked with me and I would think that it would be ideal for a child.
I think I probably had the beginnings of OCD at around that age, possibly younger and they were all linked to safety and preventing harm to people close to me and protecting myself and my things - I used to hide all my toys and possessions under my bed every night to protect them from burglars,for example. In my teens and early twenties it became gradually stronger and I lived in fear of inadvertantly causing harm to others by being careless or not doing something properly - locking doors, turning taps off, maybe I accidentally poisoned something ?? Childhood things might have been triggered by death of my brother at 10 when I was 13 - he died of a rare cancer and I think it might have made me realise how vul nerable and fragile we are and that my parents couldn't protect him so it was up to me to take responsibility.
It really kicked in in my early twenties and I would say it was the worst ever thing - it made my life so difficult when it could have been fantastic (and it was a pretty good life -I had everything going for me) - my hands were washed raw with repeated rituals...I went to see a psychiatrist my mum had found - privately - cost a fortune and went on for a couple of years and apart from dissecting everything about my past life and dreams it did bugger all...I then carried on with other psychotherapies over the years with no discernible results. I did go into a hospital for a year which was traumatic and wanted so much to be out of there and better that it did spur me to get a real grip on my obssessions. This was a famous psych. community in W London which again was interesting but maybe not the right thing !
The OCD waxed and waned over this time, never as badly

as it had been and life returned to being fine and happy.
Years later when pregnant when life was again lovely it returned and I was then treated with CBT and anti depressants and it worked. Later I had a bit of a relapse when expecting ds but managed it all with the help of my fantastic gp - no drugs or anything,just understanding.
I still have it to a certain extent but I manage it and my life is fine, I juist think and worry a lot !
I have had hypnotherapy which I can also recommend for relaxing and getting your mind realigned into less convoluted thinking.
I hope this doesn't sound like a catalogue of gloom and make you feel more anxious for your dd...people know so much more about OCD now and I think if your dd is seen now it can be nipped very firmly in the bud.
I think that all of us have it in us to develop OCD as it's a safety device which most people have with a cut off like an RCB but in some people it short circuits and we don't know when or how to switch the power off - it's just getting your mind to re learn your responses to situations and CBT will teach your dd the realistic likelihood of something 'bad' happening if she doesn't do her rituals/say mantras etc...really,there is hope,I promise. Do get in touch through mumsnet if you like of course.
I have grown up to have a pretty good life, I have a successful illustratrating career,good friends and family and a lovely son and dh

doh, confused bit in there - I had a relapse before I got married which was successfully treated with CBT and ads,not when I was pregnant, but symptoms returned in pregnancy and were managed by helpful and understanding GP - it got a bit garbled in my haste to write everything down !

MAS thank you for your story. It's v heartening. You have a partner, a child and a wonderful job, despite the OCD.
You must be very determined and brave. I am going to hold on to the fact that she has it NOW and it doesn't mean she is always going to have it - I mean it will always be in the background, but it doesn't have to impede her life. the other thing is that although I keep reading that it is a "no fault" neuro behavioural disorder, I can't help feeling that I have caused it in some way.

Hi grace. I've had bad spates of OCD over the years, but with the aid of prozac and CBT am very well. First line treatment for children is CBT, with medication as a last resort. As MAS has said above, be very wary of anyone who wants to treat OCD by delving into the past too much - it's not the recommended method. When I was PG I had a twat of a counsellor try and resolve my OCD by telling me to hug my inner child .

If waiting list is long, it may be worth going private - 12 sessions of CBT at £50 per session with a good clinical psychologist can make real inroads into the disorder.

no,you mustn't think that,though parents inevitably do..it just happens - don't beat yourself up about it...get her some help and you'll all feel great relief. Keep in touch as I'd love to hear how she does and have a lovely holiday

Thanks, both. No am V clear that we want CBT for her, only. (In fact this type of CBT called E and RP - you heard of it? Exposure and ritual prevention.) Not interested in hugging her inner child at all. I can do that myself. And if the CAMHT isn't up to speed we will definitely go elsewhere.

yes, have heard of ERP, that's bang on, exactly the right thing for her to be having.

great - you sound very positive !

gracepaley I couldn't read this post and not reply. I suffered with OCD on and off from around a similar age although it was not diagnosed until I had a really bad episode during my early 20s. Similarly to MAS it centered around anxieties that I had. I would imagine really bad things happening to people close to me or myself and would have to carry out rituals to prevent them from happening. To point to just a few included washing hands repeatedly in order that I didn't 'contaminate' anyone, switching lights on and off 10 times so that I didn't blow the house up!?!?!? Taking the stairs 2 at a time and if I got to the top without imagining a certain loved one dying then they would be safe. As you say, they are so pointless but to a sufferer of OCD they are a necessity in order to 'cancel out' their fears and anxieties.

Over the years however the condition seemed to come and go and was never notice by my parents. I think my OCD was fuelled by anxiety and at times when I didn't feel anxious I didn't really appear to have the condition. My worst episode was about a year after my daughter was born. Obviously i had never loved anything so much in my life and my anxieties centered around her. My OCD was so bad that I was consumed by it 24/7 to the point where I was unsure of my own sanity. Fortunately I have a very loving and caring and supportive dh and family who recognised what was going wrong. I was taken to my gp who referred me immediately to the mental health team of my local authority. Following an assessment by a mental health nurse which happened within days what followed was six months of CBT with a psychiatrist and 8 years on I am happy, I couldn't ask for a better family and I have a successful career.

Anyway, the point of this really long post is to reassure you that there is light at the end of the tunnel and with the right support and treatment your dd will be absolutely fine. I no longer take ADs, these were only required initially for me. Obviously, as my name suggests, I still have anxieties but what mother doesn't? I just deal with them in a normal way!

I hope this helps you to feel better about it all. Your dd has a brilliant mum who is supportive and had recognised what help she needs. She will get through it

Just re-read my post and realised that when I said 8 years on it might sound like it has taken 8 years to get to this point. Just wanted to say that what I meant was that 8 years on I am still fine and although I do have spells where I feel as though the OCD could return I manage it without ADs and just by putting the lessons that I learned when I was having the CBT into practice and it works. For me it was only a matter of weeks from starting treatment that I recognised a huge difference and only 6 months before my psychiatrist said to me ''do you feel like you need to come and see me anymore?''.

that's a really good,positive story worrybum - so glad all is well with you

same to you MAS you have obviously coped remarkably well also. It can be torture to live with OCD, for the sufferer and their family. I always used to be embarrassed about it but now I can openly discuss it. Since feeling confident enough to talk about it it you find out how common a condition it can be. In fact some experts think that most people have obsessions or compulsions or both, just to varying degrees. Just so glad I got the right help when I did.

Keep us posted gracepaley and have a nice holiday.

thanks WB. Really good positive story. I'm really worried about dd being bullied as a result of the OCD - some of her rituals are SO odd and SO obvious - keep reminding myself it's just a neurological hiccup. BUT kids can be cruel, if they don't know what's going on.

I remember being quite secretive about my rituals but obviously it'd be tricky at school for her to hide them..not sure what the best approach is here..the ERP should start to address these though as she'll be working on it everyday...

Hi, not got time to read whole thread, but I had OCD from age 11 until about 35, intermittently at first but then badly. I managed to hide it for years. CBT was very successful, as was understanding the condition: until I understood what was going on I secretly thought I was in fact mad. Being able to discuss it can help, but you have to be careful to remain neutral even in the face of mystifying, exhausting or annoying rituals from her. The important thing to know is that very few sufferers will have the condition for ever and therapy is very successful. Also goes with very high intelligence and creativity, by the way . Tell her there are lots of us out here..........

Oh Sal I wish I had read your post earlier.
I have just really really lost it. We are on holiday in a place she has been before but she is really exhausted and it has just taken 2 hours to get her into bed, didn't even have a bath, just mad pyjama rituals, eye rolling, repeating words, crazy toothbrushing ritual. Her little sister is exhausted too.. I completely lost the plot. I recovered myself and told her I was angry with the OCD and not with her but I feel really sorry for her. I am determined to do better tomorrow. I KNOW it is not her but her illness, but it is REALLY HARD. Tomorrow is another day. I WILL do this properly.

gracepaley I wish I knew what to say to make this seem more bearable. I know it probably seems like extreme torture and is exhausting to witness and deal with at times but I think it is important not to let her see your frustration with her rituals. Easier said than done I know but she will be finding it extremely distressing too. You know that this is not her fault and she is not well, you have said as much yourself, just focus on that and as hard as it may be, try to enjoy your time away. Perhaps you could call your gp when you return and see if you can try and speed up/fast track the process for therapy somehow. I really hope that she gets the help that she needs soon. In the meantime please try and concentrate on the fact that with this CBT you will have your dd back to her old self. Just think ahead of in a few years to come when she will be leading a happy normal life and looking back on this phase and thinking ''my mum was really there for me'' Stay strong!

((hugs))

Sorry to hear about your DD. You might find this website helpful, it's a forum for OCD sufferers.

thank you worrybum and meg busset. Yes WB I know. It is v challenging. I think I am still slightly in denial about it all and so when the symptoms get very bad I still get a bit surprised, angry and anxious and my recovery time is not always as quick as I would like it to be. I like your idea about projecting to the future. I have just written her a letter telling her all the myriad reasons why I love her and why she is brilliant. Because she is, and it's SO UNFAIR! Her little sister is being hilarious though, offering a running commentary on the rituals, in a really matter of fact way. We have a lot to be thankful for. And a lot to learn.

grace - I was very very very bad myself coupled with pnd. Crippled. Gp was threatening to put me on a mother\baby unit if I wouldn't stop bfing and go on anti-ds. I didn't stop bfing nor get admitted but it was dark days for me.

CBT really helped me a lot. I still have traces of my behaviors (I was a germ phobe) but they are trivial compared to the way I was.

I would suggest that until you get her started on therapy you just go along with her behaviors. Nothing is more traumatizing to someone in the throes of OCD than people not doing what they need them to do. I remember a friend came over from the states when ds1 was born and she never questioned me (even when I asked her to do crazy things) she just did them and understood. It was such a comfort to me. You will not be encouraging her behavior by doing this. You will be helping her remain as stressfree as possible UNTIL she can have therapy. But she needs that asap. If you can afford to go private I would encourage you to do so. I'm sorry if some of this has been covered already here...

grace - I was very very very bad myself coupled with pnd. Crippled. Gp was threatening to put me on a mother\baby unit if I wouldn't stop bfing and go on anti-ds. I didn't stop bfing nor get admitted but it was dark days for me.

CBT really helped me a lot. I still have traces of my behaviors (I was a germ phobe) but they are trivial compared to the way I was.

I would suggest that until you get her started on therapy you just go along with her behaviors. Nothing is more traumatizing to someone in the throes of OCD than people not doing what they need them to do. I remember a friend came over from the states when ds1 was born and she never questioned me (even when I asked her to do crazy things) she just did them and understood. It was such a comfort to me. You will not be encouraging her behavior by doing this. You will be helping her remain as stressfree as possible UNTIL she can have therapy. But she needs that asap. If you can afford to go private I would encourage you to do so. I'm sorry if some of this has been covered already here...

cheers KM - I last met you on the cunt thread........
AMazing how all these ocd-ers are coming out of the woodwork.
Her initial appointment is in 2.5 weeks, so we just have to support her until then. I was hoping we could stop it getting any worse before that, but it seems that we can't. SHe is too scared of it to countenance the idea of standing up to it.
So yes until she gets the therapy love love love is what she needs.

I think KerryMum you have made a really good point. Whilst others do not see the behaviours as normal it is important that they understand why someone with OCD behaves in the way they do. For them the rituals are wholly necessary and to prevent or try to prevent them from carrying them out will only add to their distress and anxiety. It sounds to me though as if you are doing the right thing by allowing your dd to carry on as she needs to only you are finding the whole thing upsetting. Am I correct?

It will get worse if you don't go along with her behaviors. So each time she wants to do "crazy" things, let her do them. Don't question her. If she wants you to do something "crazy" then do it. This will calm her stress levels a bit and may actually succeed in lessening behaviors ^a bit^ but not significantly until therapy.

oh, just read that she has nut allergy. So does my ds1 (amongst others) which made it especially hard to overcome (on my part).

it is all about FEAR and need for CONTROL over that fear.

x posts. Yes gp we are coming out of the woodwork and all with positive tales to tell.........notice how there has not been a doom and gloom post yet? And, I don't think you're likely to get one. The odds of CBT working are very much in your dd's favour.

grace - what the hell, will stop being cowardly and post.

I became ill with OCD fairly suddenly, at 16, although in retrospect some traits were there beforehand. I had two pretty bad years, and things started to resolve themselves when I left home for university. I think in my case a really quite unhappy life situation was a big contributing factor, but please don't think your dd's OCD is your fault in any way - it can happen independent of any life situations, and really the fact you are posting and care so much about her and wanting her to be happy and do what's most helpful for her indicates to me that she's very lucky to have you as her mum.
My parents, of course, were devastated and at an utter loss; but the way they went about things - breaking into the bathroom, shouting, threatening me with getting me sectioned - was of course counter-prosductive. (In fact, the threatening with sectioning made nme scared enough to refuse therapy altogether, which was obviously not ideal). If I was interrupted in what I suppise I have to call my rituals, I had to start them all over again, as at my worst I really felt I couldn't trust my memory, my mind, to be sure I had done what was necessary. Writing years after, I described it like this: '[my] memory fell off the chronological cliff for seconds on a regular basis, leaving me condemned to repeat the action I had intended as many times as it took my drenched and hanging-on-for-dear-life memory to accept it, haul itself up and dry off [...] I invested in disinfection, placed my little capital in the power of keeping pure. I drank water diluted with vinegar; I measured childproof caps of own-brand pine disinfectant into the bathtub and held my legs in the off-champagne warm water [...] I mourn the strength I was forced (forced?) to give to the hunt for ways and means to sneak back into the now-unlockable bathroom. For this weakness, too, I despise myself: for the power of my compulsion, power it accumulated at throttlepoint, like a local thug collecting protection money. [...] Not daring, for a long time, at least, to stand in its way, to build a barricade, to stage an uprising, I gave it strength, and strength, and strength, selling my future to my present, my eyes bent to the greenish layer of Shield soap on my hands, leaving smudges of foam to indicate I had indeed been there, pushing away the thought of how easy it would be, in another universe, to turn my back on all this.'

In other words - if she experiences it like me - she will probably have some awareness of the actual unnecessariness of the rituals; but the alternative will just be too frightening - at the moment. This is where CBT can be tremendously effective - in appealing to that awareness and strengthening it. Probably techniques such as so-called autogenic training, or visualising the anxiety as a graph whose curve will fall eventually, could help her too.

FWIW: I believe that the potential for OCD is common to all humans, in that we all cling to ritual and structure to make sense of life and feel safe. In OCD that need is greater and that production of ritual and structure - at its core an essential impulse for survival - is more extreme.

Hope some of this helps.

hello gracepaley,so sorry to hear that you are struggling on holiday,though it's good to have contact with mn while you're away..echo what others say about not stopping your dd's behaviour - the anxiety engendered by not being able to perform rituals is unbearable and it's best to wait until the treatment is underway, painful and frustrating though it is.
Remember it will be better before too long, hang on to that...lots of love xxxx

berolina - that could be me you describe with the washing rituals...I'd be up at 5 to start them,getting through endless vile bars of Cidal soap, or indeed any soap - I used to buy bars from different shops to avoid being sussed out by chemists..the times I bunged up my parents basin with soap resdie, the times I sneaked in to the bathroom after the cleaner had gone to sluice everything with dettol in case they hadn't done it properly... it was hell and exhausting and sometimes I never wanted to wake up in the morning.
Sorry - sounds over dramatic but it's made me remember the hideousness of it all.

I curse the advent of anti-bacterial soaps for the potential OCD sufferer too.//

not forgetting the hand gel MAS!

how are things this morning grace?

nothing to add to the great advice you have here, just sympathy.x

Hello all. The broadband in the hippy commune was down last night..........
You all write so movingly and encouragingly. Berolina I am SO so sorry you had to go through all that. I can understand your parents' reaction. It's totally wrong and totally inappropriate, and cruel, but I can understand it. I am amazed at how well you have come out of it, but those scars must be hard to shift. I really feel for you. And I feel for my dd too because before we got our heads round what the OCD was we were quite harsh with her about what we considered to be weird and annoying behaviour.
Yesterday was hard. She can't really relate to any other kids at the moment because of her speech thing (repeating words, saying things forwards and backwards) and the worst thing was that she wet herself because her stepping rituals meant she couldn't get to the loo on time. That was really tough. She's 9. Then at bedtime I just put her to bed with her clothes on and without doing her teeth because she was so exhausted and didn't want to go through all her bedtime rituals. It still took her 1.5 hours to get into bed though. I am just counting th edays till the appointment and going to call the CAMHT today to see if we can move it forward. She is really in a kind of hell.

I know we will get through this. It is just v hard.

gracepaley...but hang on in there...thinking of you and dd

Could not not post, some truly wonderful advice here.
I suffered very badly and sometimes still do, but it does get better I promise

It is hard, really hard. Our son was deep in the throes of OCD from the age of seven till ten, when we finally made it to the top of the waiting list. We couldn't go walk down the road, eat meals, get the children to sleep, get a babysitter, cope with school, have friends round, even sit in the garden without trauma -- everything seemed to be a trigger. Looking back I simply cannot see how we coped, and it sounds like that's where you are right now.

When he got it, though, CBT worked brilliantly. It wasn't obvious at first, but over a couple of months the anxiety came right down.

The exposure-response-prevention started gently, working on the easiest problem first, and then building on that success. Sometimes it was tough going (I can remember DS screaming at the therapist, 'You just seem to WANT to frighten me', which was gutting) but it gave him his life back.

He's 12 now and had a rough patch at the start of secondary school, but a very few sessions with the same therapist have seen him back on form.

All the very best to you and your family.

When I was about 7 I started to touch wood so that 'nothing would happen to my loved ones' Think I overhead someone saying touch wood to make things ok. For years I had to sleep with my arm out of the bed holding on to the headboard (it was wood!). I remember being so cold in the winter. Up until a few years ago I would hoard plastic bags and thought by throwing them away something bad would happen to my loved ones. I eventually tested my belief one day (as DH was getting very concerned about 100's of bags in my cupboards) and through out the bags and have never kept one since. It is great that so many people have been helped on here with their OCD issues and am sure this must be giving you confidence for your DD's future happiness.
Good luck!
XX

hi gracepaley - how is the holiday going.. ?.thinking of you

Hi all. I called the CAMHT and cried on the phone, not deliberately, but when describing the symptoms to the clinician. SHe said the appointment could not be brought forward ( in fact it has had to be put back a bit) but that she understood the seriousness of the situation and that she would make sure that there was a clinical psychologist at the initial assessment, not just a psychiatrist/psych nurse, and that they would try and speed up the treatment after that. I think we will sell our kidneys or our house or something to get her privatley treated if we can't get her seen really soon. Today we were supposed to go for a lovely walk to the beach with everyone, across the fields and woods,but she just couldn't do it, she had to keep stopping, going backwards, stepping, muttering. In the end we gave up but it still took us 2.5 hours to cross two fields. It is so insidious, the way it proliferates and develops. And at the moment she hates it if I try and stand up to it in any way - not by trying to prevent her performing the rituals, but by telling her how much I hate the OCD because of what it is doing to her. She ends up having to apologise to it. That is the most heartbreaking thing of all.

Have no advice Grace but I have been reading your posts and felt I couldn't not post. It sounds like all of you, especially your dd, are going through hell. Your last post made me cry!
Sending lots of love and hugs and I hope you get some help soon.

poor poor girl

i think like you i'd be doing anything to get her seen by someone, grace. you sound wonderful and so does she, it's just that you're all a bit stuck right now.

not wonderful at all, struggling immensely with my rage against this totally useless stupid fucking disease. Last night was a toughy again. It doesn't help that before all this kicked off I was about to leave dh. Now I can't, not for the moment. He is being brilliant about her but we are not connecting well at all and that is adding to the stress. BUT WE WILL OVER COME la la la la la la.

i think a lot of parents would be raging against the child rather than the condition tbh, so yes, i'm sticking with wonderful. that's not to minimise the nightmare situation that you find yourself in, though.

Hi Grace, hope my popping up here doesn't bother you - just read this apropos the "other" thread.

Not sure whether you'd consider me a fully sane and well-adjusted person, (you decide!), but I would certainly say that I've had a happy and successful life overall - so far, (40+ atm).

However, between the ages of c.7-11yrs, I had what would certainly be diagnosed as OCD nowadays. Because I was an only child and then had a much younger sibling, I was able to keep nearly all my rituals and mantras secret. I remember being made to feel very awkward about my constant handwashing, but nothing else was ever exposed. I spent an inordinate amount of time on my own, though.

Looking back, my parents were going through a tough time - I think they almost split up on several occasions - my mother had several miscarriages and my sibling was born handicapped. I changed schools a lot.

Gradually, things must have improved because the OCD more or less disappeared. Now and again, if I'm really stressed, it may pop up briefly, but not to any debilitating extent.

Hope this helps. It's great that your dd has caring, understanding and supportive parents who have the time and patience to help her through this. Good luck.

thanks stuffed and not inappropriate at all.
Feeling really bleak again today; she is just stuck in it all the time, we keep having to cancel things.She can't go to school, I can't go to work, I can't see anyone. We had ambitiously invited good friends over for sunday lunch but there's no way we can do it now. Her symptoms are too disturbing. It's a kind of ever decreasing circle, in which she can do less and less every day, and by extension, so can we. I am NOT a very patient person and motherhood makes me claustrophobic anyway, so this is a HUGE karmic challenge for me. I am digging really deep. I love her hugely. 2 weeks till her first appointment. Incidentally all your stories HAVE helped hugely, I am just exhausted and consequently being a self pitying twunt today.

Hi Grace, I recently attended a meeting with the Health Secretary, Alan Johnson, who has just announced a huge injection of cash from the Government into the NHS to spend on training another 3,000 NHS CBT therapists. I was there as a patient (but I do not suffer from OCD, I have a phobia).

But, at the meeting a met a woman in her late 40s who had suffered from OCD for more than 20 years. She briefly described some of her rituals which included washing every single item of clothing she wore including her coat every day for fear of catching germs. There were many many more. It sounds depressing, but the point she made was that 12 sessions of CBT had completely cured her - after 20+ years.

CBT is helping me with my issues too. I really think it can work very well, even in extremely difficult cases. I hope this gives you some confidence in the therapy, even if your DD does have to wait a bit.

In the future we won't have to wait so long for CBT on the NHS now that all these extra therapists are going to be trained.

gracepaley - I know I keep saying it but hang on because it'll be better - I know it's hell now, but it will be better...thinking of you and dd lots

Grace, look here

and here

Might something like that help in the meantime?

I am so sorry it's so bad - for you and your daughter Keep holding us before you as living proof that this is beatable and that she can and, no doubt, will live well having come through it.

Any specific questions, or you just need to rant, you know where I am.

Thanks all. You are right. In the scheme of things 2 weeks is not long to wait. I need to hold on to that. And I KNOW the CBT works and I KNOW she will get through this. Berolina thanks darlin we have books coming out of our EARS - including the 2nd one you posted - and are gradually becoming ludicrously well informed. But none of the books tell you how to become a brilliant, compassionate, selfless parent.

when I started having OCD symptoms it was much less known about - I had not idea anyone else was like me !

Absolute selflessness is rarely healthy, even when confronted with something like this; compassion you have plenty of, going by your posts; and brilliant - is what you are, for her, because you are her parent and thus what she wants and needs.

Believe me, if I could get through OCD with parents breaking into the bathroom, telling me I was round the twist and picking up the phone to get me sectioned, then your dd, with thoughtful courageous parents, already has the foundations in place to beat this.

agree with you there berolina - my parents were remarkably patient with me considering

Blimey Berolina. Still reeling from your parents' reaction. Impossible not to feel on your behalf, but I guess people just didn't KNOW what it was a generation ago. In that sense dd is very lucky - we now know what it is, and we have found a method of treatment that works. I say "we" - I have not actually been part of this process...... Have just got The Imp of the Mind - looking forward to reading it.

Hi Gracepaley big (((((hugs))))) for you and dd.

I've not read all of the thread but some of the stories other posters recount about having an obsessional period when they were 8/9/10 and then it just fading are very interesting. I work as a therapist in CAMHS and we get lots of referrals for young people with obsessions/compulsions in this age group.

I've just completed the first part of by CBT training and I'll be fully qual by next year. 3 of mycases have been OCD. I really hope treatment works for your dd, at this age therapists usually concentrate on the behaviour rather than the cognitions and try to habituate them to uncertainty/anxiety. As a previous poster has said therapy that involves "delving into the past" can be unsuitable and downright dangerous. Most CBT works on the maintenance cycle (here and now thoughts/feelings/behaviours) first and then if neccessary the therapist may look at core beliefs/schemas/assumptions e.g "I have to be perfect" "I have to be the best at everything otherwise I'm a failure" etc. etc.

Also CBT for OCD can take a big longer than for other anxiety disorders (panic for example is usually quite quick 6-8 sessions). Fingers crossed for you and your dd CAT me if you want to chat more

thank you peacelily. Nice name. THat's really helpful to meet a real live therapist on here. Yes I know it might take a while, she has so many rituals and they are so complex.... but I do BELIEVE in CBT, for this, anyway.

OK. The dds go back to school tomorrow, at least they should; dd1 won't be going, dd2 will. DP is at work till late every night this week and next week even later. dd2 has started tantrumming and kicking off as a result of all the extra attention we are having to foist on dd1.DD1 is now "in" OCD pretty much permanently. I know it's only 12 days, but I am really unsure how I am going to find the resources to deal. It's the after school - bedtime period, when I have both of them, and both are tired, that is filling me with DREAD. I need to be really calm and really strong, and I am temperamentally neither.

hope it's bearable gracepaley (it's me,MAS having name changed for the duration of The Apprentice). Interestingly, I have just performed one of my 'rituals' - a kind of token cleaning of the cooker after dh has cooked dinner - he would do it, but I do it 'properly' and I would feel very unhappy if I couldn't do this...it would be on my mind all the time.. a tiny fraction of the anxiety your dd is probably feeling about her rituals as mine are manageable and more or less token rituals. I hate doing it though and wish I didn't have to.

she can't get to sleep, the bastard ocd is now telling her she didn't do any of her rituals properly and she is creaming begging us to take her to all the places she went to day so she can redo the rituals. How much worse can this get?

screaming

screaming

Oh darling, I am sorry. You will have to hold out through this, you can't take her around now. Hold her, if she will be held, stroke her. Make her a drink for when she calms down - and she will, if only through exhaustion - no-one can scream forever. I am here.

"I know it's only 12 days, but I am really unsure how I am going to find the resources to deal. It's the after school - bedtime period, when I have both of them, and both are tired, that is filling me with DREAD. I need to be really calm and really strong, and I am temperamentally neither".

Well how about pretending that you ARE (really calm and really strong) Grace? No-one here on Mumsnet is going to be able to come to your rescue and sort your daughter out for you.

How about looking at it this way: you and DD are both LUCKY that her therapy starts so soon?

No helpful advice I'm afraid but I just wanted you to know that your posts have been read and that your darling DD is in my thoughts.
I do hope she gets the help she needs as soon as possible.

Grace - have read your thread tonight and I am amazed at how you keep going girly. I feel for you and dds and send you all the strength I have been saving up for other things.

Your humour and brains, and the obvious love you have for them I hope will pull you through the next few weeks if nothing else - and of course, you know where we are. love mbb x

Hello!

Funny on mumsnet - you can always find a thread on the very topic you are concerned about too.

Its very tough to support a child - they don't really know why they do it - just feel propeled.

I'm very worried about my son (8) he washes his hand all the time (they are so sore) I'm so upset - but so angry to.
I know I'm doing every thing wrong to support him.

poor ds MrsJonnyDepp.. I think you must mean you are doing everything you can to support him -
grace - I think all you can do is as berolina suggested...hold on to her and try to reassure and comfort her.

eekamouse - did I read your post right ?

still not asleep. Have given piriton and calpol and called the emergency doctor. She is literally in hell.

Eekamouse, fuck off.

I'm so sorry Grtace, OCD is a cruel horrible illness. My sister has it really, really, really badly.
I don't know what to say, just wanted to add some support. You must feel so frustrated and sad. I wish I could say something a lot more positive. I'm here if you want to talk a bit, x

I am sorry your DD (and therefore you) are suffering so badly. Hopefully once you are back home and in the normal (and more predictable) day to day environment things will be slightly better. It would take a saint or superhuman not to crack occasionally, if you do lose your temper, then don't be too hard on yourself.

Oh, grace.

She will come out of this hell, and she will remember what a tower of strength and comfort her mother was for her (however helpless, un-strong and un-towerish you feel now).

eekamouse, that was a badly-judged postz, at best.

the maudsley hospital has a good site for children/young people with OCD,

http://ocdyouth.iop.kcl.ac.uk/

thank you. Berolina, MAS, everyone, you're a bunch of diamonds. She has just gone off. Thomcat you have a hell of a lot on your plate don't you. Always amazed on MN at the extraordinary support people give despite their own v complex lives. Hello MB, thank you. Total we are home now, I think she was trying really hard on holiday and that's why it's got even worse on our return. Dh is being a rock. We are going straight to the doctor tomorrow. She can't even eat properly any more. Must try and get some sleep myself now.....totally wired.

I'm sorry you're going through this grace.

I don't have OCD, i have the next one down from it, Obsessive Personality Disorder, Neurosis as well as Aspergers.. i'm very strictly routine based and if my routine gets upset or i get stressed or anxious i go into quite severe OCD behaviours in the short term until whatevers upset me sorts itself out.

I'm currently being treated with AD's to try and control the anxiety which is in turn helping to calm the obsessive behaviours down.

While i'm not condoning putting a child on AD's, it may be something to look into.. if you can keep the anxiety minimised it might help her calm the OCD down.

I hope the Dr can help you in the morning, and please, please don't lose faith, you and your DD will get through this.

<<cheesy internet hugs>>

hope the doctor can help today gracepaley...will think good,positive thoughts

Hi GP thinking about you all and feel that you are being so strong. Any problems with our kids can catapulte (sp??) us into the gravest anxiety. My DS1 suffers with a stammer which at times has really tested the whole family as we are so worried. I wonder if it is worth calling the Maudsley hospital as when I was in my 30's I asked to be referred there for my anxiety problems and to be honest they saved my life. Just a thought but anything is worth trying.
I will keep checking in to see how you are.
XX

I was thinking about you and your little daughter late last night and it occurred to me that maybe fish oil might have some effect in calming her down a little, and bringing down her anxiety levels. this site seems to suggest that it might be worth a go. If you can't get her to take neat oil, Haliborange do a children's range that tastes like blackcurrant.

Thinking of you all, grace.

Hi gp. Just come back to the thread after a few days to check how things are with you and am really sorry that thing have gotten so much worse. I'm struggling now to say anything useful because I think I've said all I can that might help thus far so I suppose all I can do is offer my sympathy and support. I really hope that you get somewhere today with your doctor. Personally I cannot believe that you have had to wait this long for therapy, I know it was 8 years ago but I was literally seen in days. I would have thought that they could surely give you some form of priority given the severe distress and disruption this is causing to you all. Try to hang in there (((hugs)) for you and dd