Many thanks to everyone who has contributed to our Miscarriage Code of Practice recommendations for Alan Johnson, Lord Darzi all other UK health ministers. We've compiled into a list of 10 key recommendations here.
To coincide with Safer internet day we've launched a survey to find out how parents tackle the tricky issue of their children's internet use, with the aim of producing a Mumsnet how-to guide on how we can all ensure safe surfing.
Please (pretty please) take the survey here and give yourself the chance of winning a fab Siblu holiday
and then (pretty pretty please) post your top tips on how you keep your children safe when they use the internet on this thread
Pctattletale - I swear by it. See it less as spying on them, more as keeping them safe. I stopped a potentially dangerous situation developing on msn with a stranger my ds1 was talking to. I can't recommend it enough.
Use profile managers to limit the access to computer controls available to your children (and ideally your DH to prevent him breaking them ). This prevents the kids from deleting the history or turning off security measures.
By OliviaMumsnet on Wed 13-Feb-08 19:50:32
(from MNHQ)
Trouble is my ds knows more about computers than me he wanted to change something on dp's computer and didn't have the password, but he still managed to get in lol (he is 18 and a sensible lad so can't worry too much)
OFGS you lot are rubbish at this - think Olivia should give me the prize!
Another one - if you are locking down your system, use alphanumeric passwords which means something to you, but not to your children (expletives are good): for example, use
bl00dypa55w0rd - your kids will never get it. You will be able to remember it (as long as you remember which numbers equal letters).
Which brings me right onto: always try and learn a little bit about computers, there are some brilliant books out there and it's really not that hard. Mumsnetters are a brilliantly intelligent bunch, you could all learn the basics in a matter of hours and then you aren't reliant on a seven year old to 'fix the Internet' for you
Dh has made himself the Administrator on DD's computer and she is just a user, which means she has to run pretty much everything past him! I can't even get on here on her PC! She only has 2 websites that she is allowed to use at any time, anything else she gets a message sayng refer to your administrator! DH has also locked her PC to switch off (and on) automatically at different times of day. So, school days he has set it to switch off at 7pm, but Fridays and Saturdays she has until 10pm.
Don't use the internet as a TV /child minding substitute. Use the parental controls on your computer. MSn is minefield and one into which only the hardiest of souls should go. Even the most mature, sensible kids can be quite dumb when it comes to forwarded messages. Remember that these kids have been brought up with the internet and often assume it is flawless and harmless. They need a healthy amount of cynicism. Potential employers apparently now routinely search youtube etc for prospective employees..
Dh went to a superb seminar by some psychologist on the whole safetly on the internet issue and had some horror tales to tell. Trouble is he has a memory like a sieve so ...
DS (8) has his own e-mail account, but anything in it is copied into both DH's and my accounts - mostly so we can emind him to check it if he gets mail, but also so we can keep a weather eye.
and, as others have said, keep the computer in a family room and shoulder surf. DS knows which websites are allowed, and does not go onto any others without me being with him...I am usually in the room anyway!
Agree with your kids that there is a 'no blame' rule. If they do something they shouldn't and either break the computer or get into trouble, providing they tell you, you will just deal with it without yelling. If they know they can say 'someone said something horrible to me in a chatroom' without you freaking out about them being there in the first place, you've more chance of nipping problems in the bud.
DD knows I go and meet people I've met over the internet (mumsnet, NCT yahoogroups) and I even stay at their houses when I've never met them but have just been referred by a friend. I hope she grows up to be more sensible than I
Seriously, because I do this, she knows I don't do anything to put myself in danger and we talk openly about it - always have. Long may it continue.
Realise I have made a lot of assumptions. We talk about internet safety and have the computer in a family place. The children ask me every time they are asked any questions or to give any details, for example on Runescape, and what they should say. But having read all the above I feel much more needs to be done. I'll be reading and printing this.
MY eldest has his own lap top so it can be secured it blocks swear word chat rooms and explicit pictures
I also have a snoop on it which means I can access all the web sites he has been on
I have a mac for the main family computer and these have great parental controld built in which limit the amount of time you can use the Mac for every day
I have DDs (11) Bebo password and keep checking activity every couple of days (she doesn't know that though) and if I see a new "friend" I make her tell me in detail who they are. She isn't allowed to add friends of friends - only people she knows herself. We let her watch the Panorama programme about a month ago and she was a bit shocked but got the message. Some of her friends on Bebo have school details, names and ages etc. I wonder why their parents don't keep a check too!
Mine isn't old enough yet to be surfing parts of the net I don't approve of (unless cbeebies/playhouse disney has a social networking part I have not yet discovered ), but I think the most crucial thing is to ensure that children are aware.
There are numerous things we can implement at home, netnanny or equivalent/limiting time on pc/ensuring pc is in a visible part of the house etc, but children are able to access the internet from other places, library/school/other friends' houses/internet cafe's, and if they don't have the right level of awareness to ensure their own safety, then there's every chance they may fall into difficulty when surfing somewhere where the controls are not so strict.
HI MN Towers Maybe you could do an item on this topic. Here's some good information.
Liz Carnell founded the charity, Bullying Online with her son John in 1999. The charity, which operates online at www.bullying.co.uk, is now the UK’s leading anti-bullying charity and top destination for parents, children and schools. Here you will find some advice on internet safety and cyber bullying.
My tips FWIW is to have the computer in a communal place where all can see it. Its no good having it in a quiet room as they can flick on to any website they fancy.
Also talk to your kids and ask them what they are doing. I phrase it as if I dont have a clue about the tinternet and they are happy to "explain" all about whatever site they are on.
Also dont be afraid to tell them you arent happy with a certain site but beware once they are at senior school they will access Bebo at school or in the library
Also judge what is acceptable for each child my 12 yo DD cant be trusted not to access certain sites or tv programmes for that matter where as my 11yo DS is sensible and if he sees anything he finds unacceptable he wont use the site. He is also sensible enough not to repeat anything in front of younger siblings whereas my DD would delight in telling/showing her 8 and 7 yo siblings.
I like the idea of limiting their time on the computer, I will definately be looking into that!
I've done the survey. Bit of a cheat as ds is only 4 and my method of ensuring internet safety is to keep him off the computer completely! Since we've only got one child this is easier for us than for most.
We've talked about it with him and have said that when he starts Reception later this year he can have access to a CDRom which his grandparents bought for him (without asking us). At that point or for his 5th birthday we might decide to give him whitelist access to 2 or 3 sites at most for a while.
All very easy while ds is so young. I've found this thread really useful and thought-provoking.
My DS (12) has tought me various ways of checking a site for safety before he clicks on it!
He can also retrieve all of our "lost" passwords & control any of our PC's from his laptop! He is into simple programming & is always on Techy Forums. At Primary school he used to install their new software etc for the teachers...
Basically - if he wanted to he could get round any safeguards we installed - but he is very sensible and loves telling us what he has found.
He ALWAYS asks before signing up for anything, and has even created his own "login" hotmail account to avoid antyhing unwanted in his personal box. He used to ask before opening any new site but we are beyond that now!
I used to be forever checking that no details were being given out, I now trust him.
They are scarily able on the PC's these days (Christmas lists as Powerpoint presentations etc )..
We used monitoring software a few years ago, but uninstalled it as it was useless. Instead I've focused on educating my daughters (aged 12 and 10) about appropriate behaviour and rules for use.
We do have the computer in the family room, and I also do spot checks on pages accessed, MSN chat history, Bebo and email. I've also set the firewall up to block giving out personal information such as name, email address and phone number - although you can override it.
I am keen to have another go with monitoring software so will look at PCTattleTale as mentioned earlier. I'm not aware of my daughters having come across any undesirable information or indeed people on the internet - but I'm also aware that you can not really know for sure - so trying to be as vigilant as I can, but also still trying to respect their privacy - which is a very fine line!
DH is a microsoft certified technician, DS1 is a software programmer in his spare time. DS2 (10 yo)just soaks it in through his skin, I have no way of policing him except by putting rules in place and asking him to keep to them. Which thankfully he has done (so far). He runs his anti virus, his spy bot, and his de-frag programs more regularly than I do.
My top tip is to allow your children a certain amount of internet freedom eg. to use age-appropriate sites.Keep talking to your children, show an interest in what theya re doing online. Most children are seriously not interested in going out of their comfort zone.
By the time they want to experiment they'll have worked out enough ways to do it without you finding out.
Ensure Google is set to 'safe search' and then don't tell your IT literate 11 year old that this is the case. (Otherwise you are just setting him an interesting challenge.)
We only got a computer and internet in January mainly cause we couldnt afford it before!
DS (10 yrs) knows a million times more than I do! We bought the computer from DS1 (26 yrs) - and he was supposed to have wiped it of everything that wasn't suitable for a 10 yr old!!!!!!
DS4 goes on and is choking laughing - 'Mum our Dan is not the good kid you think he is'
This computer (the devils work) will be in our living room until DS4 is about 45!!!!!
Yep my DS1 (22yo) and DH both Googled it. It was 'interesting. The main listing only had one non-feathered 'blue tit', but the side listings were full of them.
As an aside, to control the porn our DS1 was going to be trying to see from age 14 upwards, DH actually downloaded it himself checked it over and passed it on. As he put it, normal porn was a normal teenage 'thing', the forbidden fruit syndrome. By supplying 'vetted' porn we were ensuring he didn't feel the need to go onto hardcore porn sites. (we also got a label as cool parents). It also ensured that he didn't accidently download any viruses , worms or bugs etc.
When we owned our own computer shop we had one poor woman who had to bring her computer in monthly because her Ds had downloaded alsorts of crap viruses with the porn, and it was costing her around £200 per time to clean her system down and re-instal everything. As we said though, he was just looking at women, it could have been sheep. She eventually took me to one side and asked 'what the hell can I do?' we told her to do what we did, we never saw her or her computer again.
if your child/children are allowed on your PC (I ave my own laptop which is shareable only when I am not on MN), ensure that you have definately shut down any and all programmes you have been on.
my kiddies discovered what I had been buying on ebay for their xmas pressies.
oh, and make sure that the 5yo is taught not to press any buttons when you are occupied yelling at one of the other kiddies in the house......
ours did, pressed number lock, and then somehow managed to shut down the laptop (all while I was sat with him I might add......oooh the shame). when we went to log back on later, of course the PC would not recognise the passwords as they were now all in number, and as passwords are only shown as stars, it took us some time to work out what had gone wrong.......(at myself as well as him!!!!)
We've been working on this survey and report all week and today discovered (thro dd's best friend's mum) that my dd had seen "a woman putting a man's penis in her mouth and sucking" (on youtube) while on a playdate (dd didnt tell friend which playdate). Felt sick and . DD is 9 and we haven't really done the birds and bees in any detail at all, although we have talked about not talking to strangers on the internet and there being some nasty stuff on there.
Can't really talk directly/in detail to dd about it as best friend told her mum in strictest confidence (and told her not to tell me) - so have to find a more roundabout route.
But there was I blithely filling in survey saying I didn't think my children had come across anything too nasty/ of a sexual nature. At home they're supervised, and I know exactly what sites they're on, but what about when they are at other folks' houses?
How do you say to a playdate person - by the way you don't let them on the computer unsupervised do you? And if you do, please don't?
Anyway, sorry for such a sad and sordid post - not sure what my top tip would be. Draw up family rules for use of the internet and post them by the computer, is one that I;ve come across and will follow. Might not solve everything but might at least open a dialogue and let the child talk about what they've seen? Plus investigate some of the software people have suggested. Anyone got any other advice/tips?
Oh and please please fill in the survey and encourage others to do it. If you have children of different ages you can fill it in more than once (with different aged child in mind). We think this is a really important subject and it would be great to have a really authoritative survey of over 1000 parents (we're at 635 at the moment) as well as some tips on how you're already dealing with it.
Thanks to those who've filled it in so far and apologies for epic post!
you might want to investigate tis further. because out and out porny penis sucking on you tube isnt there - i cant find it - it isn't allowed. there is insinuation - head bobbing etc. - but it is ither a) great becuase your dd hasn't seen something quite as graphic as you think - or b) the mother is lying and you need more detail.
So sorry to hear that CarrieMumsnet Very hard to think about, but we should all consider it possible.
I would prefer my dds not to use other peoples computers or with take part if their friends are. But how can you know if they are in another home.
I have told my dd not to use youtube, I think I will have another talk with her. She has a laptop (never in her own room), but we are not always in the same room with her.
dd2 (8yrs) uses a computer next to me and if I'm not in the room, her dad is. We can both see the screen clearly from where we sit.
Terrible that youtube takes no responsibility for its content (as far as I know).
Yes dd uses age-appropriate sites as I mentioned earlier, with parental controls such as bookworm says.
dd's school state in their newsletters not to allow our children to use bebo, etc. This is wonderful reinforcement of the general message. You-tube is banned for dd in our house but I know she uses the net at friends houses. So far no reports of anything untoward.
Carrie, that's so sad, and difficult, and bloody worrying.
We're the first generation of parents who've had to deal with the internet and it's inherent problems. We quite literally have no idea what they're looking at, given unhindered access.
I can't really fill out the survey as ds isn't age-relevant yet, but I'm glad this thread's here.
If you use a search engine ie google on the search page you will read in small text 'preferences'
click on 'preferences' and thena new window comes up, half way down click on the box 'Use strict filtering (Filter both explicit text and explicit images'
that takes 30 seconds and can help straight away.
with any search even on youtube it could be a random search word that would bring something like that up. Same for google images any random word can bring a surprise if you are not filtering.
A few months ago, I was on a newspaper forum surfing around, as you do, and clicked on an innocent looking link and it was a photoshopped picture of madeleine mcann with someone's penis in her mouth.
I was, and still am, revolted by the image - so god knows how your DD is coping with it
I think the most important thing is to make it a matter of course that all internet access happens in the living room or a family room. And that there's lots of talk about what's OK and what's not.
I also think - and I feel as if I'm alone in this - that children shouldn't be allowed to lie about their age to access sites. You have to say you're 13 before you can join Bebo, for example - so how come most of my dd's friends were on it at 10? The same goes for Runescape.
We only set up internet access when ds1 was 10 and ds2 9. They both had a chat about never clicking on pop ups etc, never giving out personal details. They have both recently set up facebook profiles on condition that I have their passwords.
I would've thought that that would be the easiest single measure to ensure their safety - they know that I can access their fb profile at any time. The computer is in a room that has 3 doors leading into it - we are all going backwards and forwards past it at any time. We explained that if they look at unsuitable images our broadband account is in dh's name so they could actually get their dad into serious trouble.
I've never been one for 'banning' things - I think if you do that then whatever it is suddenly has irresistable allure.
It's important to give them the benefit of your trust and for them to understand the reasons for not being tempted to access unsuitable sites.
recently my pc got hacked. no idea what happened, but it changed all the images on my pc wallpaper to s+m images. fortunatly no penis' or sexual acts being played out/ but dd1 switched on the pc to boot it up, and then came running in saying 'mum there are naked ladies on the computer and one is hitting the other' i was like WTF! then norton kicked in and cleaned it all up.
so now i always switch on the pc for them and go through a quick run through of sites to make sure all is ok, (dropping by mumsnet of course) then hand over the pc to the kids.
I have parental controls on the boys' computer which requires my password every time they want to visit a website that I haven't already approved. DS2 has asked if I will remove the controls as "I won't go on any websites that I shouldn't". Thing is he may not realise the website is suspect until I've seen it, so the controls stay - although they are as much of a pain to me as to the boys as I have to drop whatever I'm doing to enter the password.
Would like to hear more about different types of parental controls as am mostly ignorant...
...but do discuss which sites he's allowed on and at present, he sticks to it. But realise will have to stay ahead of the game the older he gets... Have had long discussions with him about issues around giving out personal info, phishing and strangers not being who they say they are. And he seems to get why these might be an issue. i have said I will look at some role-playing sites he's interested in before allowing him yay or nay but I'm really not too sure about these since there seem to be so many strangers pretending to be someone else (doh, of course I know that's the point...) but have no idea whether to interpret this as potentially sinister or not...
Can I just say that we found out the reason the computers are off at the gym we are members of is that the recent power cut we experienced caused something to happen to the internet filters. The children's computers were then used to access inapropriate sites and a little girl accidentaly stumbled across these sites.
I would always supervise a child using comuters I have no knowledge of outside our home. I would now never take for granted that a computer in a child friendly area (the computer in question was in the children's area, separate to the adult only area) has the approparitae filters.
Just though I'd pass that on...
By OliviaMumsnet on Mon 25-Feb-08 17:48:38
(from MNHQ)
As an added incentive for those of you (and there are quite a few !) who haven't already completed our Internet safety survey, we've added an additional prize of a fab TV, thanks to Mr Men for supplying this. First out of the hat will get a choice between this and the wonderful Siblu holiday and the runner up will get what's left. Best of luck MNHQ
). This prevents the kids from deleting the history or turning off security measures. 
he wanted to change something on dp's computer and didn't have the password, but he still managed to get in lol (he is 18 and a sensible lad so can't worry too much)
She only has 2 websites that she is allowed to use at any time, anything else she gets a message sayng refer to your administrator! 
