Well, too much private sector stuff for my taste. It's all very well to say that the proof of privatising utilities in developing countries will be in the eating: in practice, by the time people in these countries realise that privatisation is disastrous, the governments are locked into fixed-term contracts that they can't escape, and the private companies are busy asset-stripping former public utilities and depriving those in squatter settlements of sanitary facilities.

I would like to know whether we are yet meeting the UN's target of 0.7% of GDP on development aid.

I applaud the work DFID is going WRT violence against women, but would like to know how this issue is being addressed in Darfur.

Completely agree with DFID's stance on population.

Well done on debt relief. I think this is one of the (few) areas in which there is still a discernible difference between the Labour and Conservative parties.

Climate change - if that is what the government really believes, then it's going to have to get tough in all sorts of ways (motorists, aviation industry, local councils, domestic energy consumption and so on) and I just don't see any evidence of it happening at the moment.

I don't believe that the UK is doing anything like enough to ensure fair trade deals for developing countries.

Mind you, I'm probably speaking into the void here, aren't I? You're long gone.

Oh, there you are Douglas. Thought you'd been taken out the back and shot after the election-that-never-was incident.

<goes off to read mammoth post>

Thank you for all your comments. I have tried to focus my response around the main themes you raised. I know it’s quite long but you provided such a breadth and depth of comments, I wanted to try to do justice to them.

We started this discussion to talk about what we can do for mums and for children in developing countries. This followed the launch by the PM and I of an International Health Partnership in September.

You gave me lots of food for thought on a wide range of topics. Do have a look on our website for more in-depth information about DFID’s ongoing work in all these areas: www.dfid.gov.uk And if you have any further specific questions, please feel free to contact our Public Enquiry Point at enquiry@dfid.gov.uk

Douglas

Rt. Hon. Douglas Alexander
Secretary of State for International Development

1. Health

Health workers
You asked about how we can reduce the negative effects of the so-called ‘brain drain’. The UK operates a code of practice for international recruitment of health workers. This means that the UK government does not actively recruit from countries that do not want to lose their skilled staff. Last year some private sector employers also opted into the code.

Unused medicines
Some of you asked about how we can use more donated medicines. They can really help but if they are not known to local health professionals or delivered in the wrong doses they can do more harm than good. Our policy is to support drugs donated through individual agreements between the donor and country.

I agree we need to ensure money and medical supplies are not diverted by corruption or mismanagement. In early 2008, DFID will begin pilot operations of Medicines Transparency Alliance: a scheme aimed at introducing greater transparency in the procurement and distribution of medical supplies.

Medical Research
We support research and development into diseases such as Malaria. And in Kenya, DFID has committed £47.4 million for social marketing of insecticide treated nets (ITNs). We aim to reach 60% coverage of children under five and 40% coverage of pregnant women by the end of 2007, by selling 11.1 million nets at highly subsidised and affordable prices

2. Promoting women’s rights
As a father who is incredibly proud of his three year old daughter I am particularly conscious that the face of poverty in developing countries is overwhelmingly female. I agree with the point many of you raised: empowering women must be a key priority for us all, and it is a fundamental part of DFID’s work.

Girls’ education
DFID has committed £8.5 billion to support education in developing countries over the period 2006/7-2015/16. In Nigeria DFID contributed £26 million to a girls’ education project in 6 northern states which has increased girls’ enrolment by 10-15% in just one year. Each additional year girls spend in school, is estimated to boost her eventual wages by 10-20 per cent.

Providing an income
DFID supports four large micro-finance projects specifically designed to help give more women an income and an additional ten projects providing loans and financial services to both men and women. An example is the Kashf foundation in Pakistan which has 125,000 female customers.

Violence against women
We consider this a critical area to address and have a number initiatives aimed at tackling violence. For example, earlier this year we committed £3.2m to UNIFEM’s programme to support women’s engagement in peace-building and prevent sexual violence in conflict and post-conflict situations, working in Afghanistan, Haiti, Liberia, Rwanda, Timor Leste, and Uganda. In Sierra Leone, we are providing support to strengthen Family Support Units in the Sierra Leone Police, which were established to respond to incidents of sexual, physical and emotional abuse of women and children. They will investigate such cases, bring perpetrators to justice and facilitate healing and reintegration of survivors.

3. Population in developing countries
There were a number of points made on this, so let me set out my views:

99% of population growth will take place in developing countries – this growth will create new pressures, particularly on water, on basic services such as education and health, on agricultural land, and in town and cities.

That said, the Government does not try to control population in the UK and neither should we overseas. We want people to make informed choices in their lives, including the number of children they have. DFID is helping to provide this information in developing countries, as well as supplying around 150 million condoms per year.

On a wider level, we support increased education, better health, greater equality and improved reproductive health – these policies offer individuals and families both choice and opportunity.

4. Debt cancellation
Thanks to the efforts of debt campaigners (and I think quite a number of you were part of this campaign), 22 countries, including 18 African countries, have now had all debts to the World Bank, International Monetary Fund and African Development Fund cancelled under the Multilateral Debt Relief Initiative. They have also received 100% debt cancellation from the UK and many other governments and other creditors.

Nine other countries are already receiving interim relief and will get full debt cancellation when they reach the required standards (demonstrating that the savings will be used for poverty reduction). A further 12 countries remain eligible for Heavily Indebted Poor Countries (HIPC) debt relief.

The UK meets and exceeds its commitments under HIPC and provides 100% debt cancellation. We have also written off nearly all old aid loans. In Uganda and Zambia, debt relief has helped make possible the removal of user fees for health care. In Tanzania, debt relief has helped provide primary education for over 96% of children.

5. Climate Change
As many of you pointed out, it will be the world's poorest people - who are least responsible for the problem - who will be hardest hit by climate change. And people in developing countries have the least resources to deal with the impact. For example, as much as 70% of people in Africa rely on farming. And scientists are telling us that by 2020, climate change could reduce some farming harvests in Africa by 50%! What will this mean for people's lives and livelihoods?

So for me, climate change is more than an environmental or an economic issue - it's inherently a development challenge. We must really do all we can - as governments, citizens and businesses alike - not only to prevent dangerous climate change but also to help poor countries prepare for the impacts.

6. Trade
Several of you asked about our trade policies. DFID aims to realise the UK’s long-term vision: a world trading system that is fair as well as free, with greater prosperity for developing and developed countries. Gordon Brown asked me to chair the Cabinet Committee on trade policy and make sure our policies on aid, debt reduction and trade policy fit together. We are determined to ensure the Economic Partnership Agreements (EPAs) between the EU and developing countries meet developing countries interests.

I know you discussed how and where clothes are made. I think people want to be confident that when they get dressed in the morning, it’s just their clothes that have been stitched up – not the workers that have made them. DFID has provided nearly £2m to the Fairtrade Foundation since 1997. Its great to see a 50 percent rise in sales of Fairtrade products from 2005 to 2006

7. Privatisation
Some of you raised concerns about privatisation. I believe that it is principally the private sector that creates economic growth. But the state's capacity to shape the incentives and opportunities for private sector development is also crucial. Sustainable growth means the state must create a favourable climate for business, but in ways that operate in the interests of society as a whole. We judge the success or failure of any privatisation - of infrastructure, roads, water or power - will depend on the political/economic governance capacity and willingness to regulate in the best results for both sustainable economic growth and the interests of all, including poor and vulnerable people. That is how we look at privatisation.

8. Fighting corruption
I take this very seriously. DFID is working constantly to ensure that UK aid is used for the purpose intended. Strict accounting, procurement and auditing procedures are required for all UK aid programmes. Where necessary, independent auditors track expenditure, and technical staff strengthen management arrangements and oversight. All allegations of corruption are investigated and, if necessary, corrective action taken.

Secondly, the UK is helping governments to investigate and deal with alleged corruption through the courts – especially where money has flowed through UK jurisdictions. The UK Serious Fraud Office has provided legal assistance to court cases in a large number of countries including Zambia, Malawi and Sierra Leone. In Zambia, DFID supported the country in a case against former President Chiluba: the Judge ordered £26 million to be seized and returned to Zambian people.

Thirdly, DFID always assesses both our government and civil society’s commitment and actions to reduce corruption when deciding how to provide aid and what safeguards are required. We are now regularly reviewing the ‘quality of governance’ in making decisions about the provision of aid.

And fourthly, we are taking action to reduce the scope for international bribery and money laundering and to promote better codes of conduct for international businesses and public contracting.

9. Rights-based development
A number of members also point to the concept of rights-based development – in particular, Amartya Sen’s definition of poverty. DFID is committed to working with a range of partners, and Sen’s work on freedoms underpins our understanding of poverty and how we tackle it.

In fact, Mr Sen’s work is mentioned in two key DFID publications – the “Making Governance Work for Poor People” white paper published last year, and in the related publication “Governance, Development and Democratic Politics.” (Both these documents are available on our website).

is this person going to get back in touch? i am very curious as to what he thinks of our ideas.

I'd say consult the people concerned! If you want to support people, which is great, ask them first how best to do that. As they are the people dealing with the problems, they will be the people who know best what's needed.
So consult first, without assuming anything beforehand.


I like the better coordination bit. Not sure to do it on a limited (just health focussed) scale is as helpful as doing it on a far bigger, all-encompassing scale; the fewer organizations the better...

NB: Roger Riddel, 'Does foreign aid really work?' (Oxford University Press) is very illuminating.

just one statistic that i heard from babymilkaction chap:

more children could be saved by breastfeeding alone, than by clean water or vaccination programmes.

[paraphrased from unicef]




leave mothers to brestfeed, stop interferring in internal market structures, increase literacy amoungst women, give women oppurtunity to make a stand in local politics, access to clean water and sanitation, stop forcing GM crops on the poor (as they need further costs), help stop wars (creates famine, poor infrastructures, abuse, rape).

the fact that breastfeeding women can *on it's own* can provide better health for womenin rural communities, is what money should be focused on.

but, again it's men talking to men about 'male' issues.

ie. making money.



i doubt if Douglas Alexander would want to discuss breastfeeding, but i'm happy for him to prove me wrong!

Hi there

We've had a mail from Douglas Alexander's office to say the feedback may be a little late - Mon or Tues next week.

Apologies and thanks again for all the contributions.

I think the whole problem of poverty especially amongst women and children is a global one of not recognising womens right.

We all recognise that mothering and parenting are essential for the growth and development of our children yet mothering in all countries even the rich countires is unpaid and unrecognised.

Many mohters in wealthy countries have limited rights, some are financially dependent on spouses for the duration of rearing children, others want to work but cannot afford childcare, others have to work and have no childcare, so children suffer.

We should start by giving salaries to all mothers or primary ccarers in rich countries, so that mothers are independent financially and children will not suffer any loss of lifestyle if marriage breaks down. Then get campaigns going to encourage other countries to follow suit.

Richer countries could offer a salary to Mothers/primary carers and a tithing of 10% could be offered to help fund salaries for mothers in Third World countries until these countries include thier mothers in their public service budgets.

This one hits pretty close to home. I was born in Africa. My father was a prominent politician and I remember watching his frustration as he dealt with aid donors and organisations such as IMF and World Bank. He said that the biggest stumbling block to economic progress and development in Africa was that Africans were not being given the opportunity to trade on equal terms with their Western counterparts.

Twenty years on, the story is still the same as the World Trade Organisation tries to bully developing countries into accepting abysmal terms of trade.

As an African I know that the majority of Africans do not wake up in the morning thinking about their next aid handout because most of them never even see it.

As a general rule, aid comes with conditions attached and in Africa where red tape, inefficiency and corruption is endemic, a lot of aid does not reach the people who need it most.

It is unrealistic to believe that aid is a way to fight poverty in the long term or indeed to use it as a means of sustaining growth. The work done in Africa by charities such as Oxfam and Christian Aid is admirable, however a continuous reliance on aid can be debilitating for its recipients because it robs them of the desire, drive and confidence to strive for a better life for themselves. As a child I often heard my father say, "Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach him how to fish and he can eat for the rest of his life." This saying rings never more true than in the case of Africa today.

A money problem is not solved by throwing money at the problem, but by changing attitudes towards money. In the same way the problem of poverty in Africa will not be solved by a constant flow of aid, rather by equipping Africans with the necessary tools, knowledge, skills and opportunities to work themselves out of poverty.

Africans are proud, industrious people who would enthusiastically embrace trading opportunities that would not only enable them to keep their heads above water, but give them hope of planning for their future.

It's not as if Africa has nothing to offer. There is a huge global market for African products, be it cocoa from Ghana, coffee from Uganda, tea and green beans from Kenya. These and other products are consumed in enormous quantities in the developed world, yet only a tiny fraction of these imports into the West are by businesses that are controlled by Africans

Better trading opportunities can breathe much-needed life into African communities, making them more vibrant and productive.

I believe that there is a time for aid and a place for trade. The fight against poverty in Africa is far better served by empowering Africans, by giving them the chance to take charge of their future, allowing them an equal footing on the world stage to compete with their counterparts in richer countries. This would not only reduce the aid burden on the richer countries, but also reduce the reliance upon them by developing countries for their survival. Trade should reflect, not just the enormous power that the richer countries wield, but also the increasing globalisation of world markets.

A charity tax? Everyone who earns over a certain amount, say £50k pa, has to give a percentage to charity. The percentage goes up the higher a wage earner you are.

And a cap on wages to stop them spiralling out of control such as footballers wages. It is ludicrous to think of all this money floating around that even they, cannot spend because the amounts are so high they are almost fictional. This should be stopped. No-one needs that amount of money to live on, it is wasteful in the extreme.

The International Health Partnership sounds like a promising concept; better coordination would be great if it would actually mean that the partnership acts as a 'one stop shop' for developing countries. In practice I'm afraid that it will result in just another talkshop - with many countries forced to continue their bilateral relations that all have there own specific demands.

I think it is a big jump from introducing the IHP to asking mums how they would solve 'global poverty' - that is an open invitation to get sidetracked.

Specifially on improving health - I don't think you will get anywhere if not starting with the basics of clean water & adequate sanitation. If those two are in place - countless benefits will follow immediately; health improves dramatically as watercarried diseases decline & hygiene practice improves; people's dignity and self esteem will improve massively with adequate sanitation - women in particular will benefit, and will also be a lot safer from attacks & rape; girls won't have to spend hours and hours to get water, meaning they can get into education and move forwards...

Until good water & sanitation are in place (and don't forget the large numbers of people in slums) - any other health plans will be doomed to failure.

Both the government & DFID are of course very aware of this already - (see your recent enquiry in these issues). What needs to happen now is that this knowledge is actually put into action - don't bother with more working groups on policy & other bla, bla - we all need to know what needs to happen; it is up to you to now get into action - continue to support work that is already being done and accept that there are no quick fixes and that this is going to take years & years of work; be prepared to commit to long term funding of partners who deliver on the ground and allow them time to build services up sustainably & don't be tempted into rush jobs that look good in a logframe but will be lying useless before even the final reporting is done.

clean water, proper sanitation, built sustainably and together with communities - the rest will follow!

World poverty is caused by politics.

However, it is no nations fault that the crisis in third world countries began, or continue.

Each country can only give what the government has earmarked, and in crisis, we as a nation send more.

This is no doubt passed on to us as taxes, as nothing in the world is free. We are kidding ourselves if we believe that.

Instead of short term band aids, we surely need to focus on particular areas, and only cease funding when that area is stable enough to support itself, even if meaning other areas have to wait a few months, or even a year.

I know in crisis, a year is not acceptable, but if we earmark a certain amount LESS each year for "short term" we can ensure that Long term gets priority. Short term will never work, as much of the benefit willbe lost when the short term aid ceases. It is not leaving a sustainable result.

It seems so much reporting is done on crisis funding, we dont hear much about ongoing development work. And we hear almost nothing about success stories.
Questions I would ask are :
Are there any that we have funded that are still ongoing, and what are we doing?
Did we follow the issue through to success?
What is the cost to the nation?

I believe agriculture, medicines and education are the first things that should be tackled. the older generation will not change, and cannot realistically be helped. But teh children can be taught, and the young adults shown how to teach their future children.

You cannot change a countries climate, which is a serious issue to consider. But what can be done to alleviate the effects of the weather. Disasters are usually weather related.

take from the rich and give to the poor

i think the amount everybody should have to pay a tiny amount (even 50p) on top of their council tax every month, then this excess should be used to provide the developing worlds with the things thye so desperatly need, its soooo wrong how we are all human beings, yet some of us have loads of money while some of us cannot even give our children a drink of water without the fear that they will die if the water is contaminated, grr i best stop there all i will be typing all night as this is something i feel VERY strongly towards.

As well as education for girls and women (and making it happen, so that it isn't prioritised for boys when resources mean that only one child can go to school etc...) and *sexual and reproductive rights* including sex education for girls so that there are options other than immediate motherhood, general equality in economic terms for men and women (ie *equality in pay, housing law, employment law and inheritance law*) so that women can have access to resources to live independently regardless of marital status or financial whims of husbands/male relatives; and some *serious legal and attitude-changing work on violence against women* (whether *domestic violence, sexual harassment/violence in the street or at work, sexual violence by soldiers/armed groups in armed conflict*)
and sort out the international trade laws, otherwise you are just tinkering around the edges

I echo concerns about hoping this consultation isn't to the detriment of some serious academic/thinktank/NGO consultations with experts.

looking forward to the detailed response

Higher taxes for high earners with those taxes doing directly to Aid relief. Wages for people such as politicians, footballers, popstars and the like are just astronomical and out of control imo. People don't require that much money to live, certainly not footballers. The government should clamp down on this.

More support for Third World governments, get them included, make them responsible for their own people, encourage them to set up systems, do exchanges with their ministers so they can see how we tackle things here, closer relationships with them etc.

And stop gabbing on about how you are going to solve World Poverty, which is just a vote-grabbing hot topic that you politicans throw in every now and then to keep us happy, and actually DO something. I'll start taking more notice of our government once they start ACTING and stop TALKING.

Now can I have pixies on the home page?

You're such a bunch of cynics - no pixies on the home page for you until you start behaving .

Now, before Douglas Alexander comes back with his thoughts, does anyone else have any more ideas on how we as mumsnetters, given the chance, would tackle world poverty?

You are very bouncy tonight Rhubarb. Positively Tiggerish.

Will he adopt third world children do you think?

Oh dear, I'll bet Carrie doesn't put my pixie thread onto the home page now, bummer!

Oh, the whole kids scenario will be contracted out, obviously.

Don't think he has any. But he's definitely a "new man"!

<waits patiently for DouglasAlexander to upload his profile, including pictures of small children eating messy food>

Oh and Carrie, could you pleasy weasy put my pixie thread on homepage?

Cop Out!

Hi there DouglasAlexander and thanks for getting back to us - we look forward to your in-depth response. Meantime Mumsnetters - anyone else got anything else they'd like to add?