I have had it with this crap.
I am fed up with threads on mn that seem to say that being disbaled makes you less of a person.
I have seen 2 today. I can't be fucked with trying to "educate" people anymore.

I'm sorry you are having to deal with these narrow minded people. I think of your DD as a girly girl who likes trendy tops and makes semi -rude comments at the end of boring meetings with her communication aid.

Where?
They must be nutters.

hugs 2shoes.

2shoes don't upset yourself. I find that some people don't want to be educated they would prefer to stay in their own ignorant world. I usually ignore those threads.

Bluddy nutters, at that.

Your two are magic, your DS and DD.

That's what counts.

I know what you mean 2shoes. Its the 'oh, I know its not PC to say this but...' that really gets me. Its not f-ing acceptable AT ALL and people get all defensive when you challenge them. If they were making racist comments there is NO WAY they would be allowed to tiptoe around the issues.

moondog - an unpleasant comment about people
who "sit and dribble" on the abortion thread.

shells - yeah that comment "the it's not PC" one was precisely the bit of the post that pissed me off - the assumptions it's something everyone feels.

feckin hell. Where's that then?

post by ronshar at 10.24 today on the abortion thread.

I am just so fucked of by it. my dd is beautiful and has not a mean bone in her body. yet theses dipsticks continue to see disabled people as less than worthy.

2shoes, I'm just having a great time looking at your profile. Gee you've got a lot of kids...

oh 2shoes

they are idiots, not much help to say that, but they are

lol @ shells.

you goof - that's her BOYFRIEND

He's a love x

Oh 2shoes - don't let their ignorance grind you down

You know, your DD will always be a wonderful person - these people will always be ignorant tossers - which would you rather have in your family!

Quite right soapbox. Their anxiety about 'perfect' children is just so hateful. You wouldn't ever want to know people like that in RL.

not her real boyfriend though - just her "dream" boyfriend.

Well I know how you feel and I have experienced it first hand too I have also seen people in my family do it (though not to my dd specifically but to others which is equally as bad) It all boils down to ignorance, and intrenched thought processes.

The odd thing is I have 2 dc's
dd has cp and ds is "normal"
yet who is the one who has had countless operations. won't eat their veg and gives me greif........go on guess







ds the "perfect child.

amen soapbox.

2shoes they are not worthy of your anger, really they're not. But I do also know how hard it is not to rise to it and tell them all to fuck off.

you know, sometimes i think, 'maybe i was chosen to have a child with SN'.

because i for one don't think it's any of my damn business to decide whose life is worth living, least of all my child's.

and if SN is the worst thing in someone's world, well, i hope they realise how lucky they are.

My kids can't do much about their special needs, but I'd be right on their cases if either of them showed any sign of growing up as downright insinsitive and ignorant as some people seem to take a pride in being.

Cheezy Internet Hugz.

I don't know what to say, I really don't. There is no excuse for these sort of attitudes .

I did post on that thread cos it upset me so much.

I've added a thought or two, too.

I bloody well will be too!!! , how DARE they?!!!!

Complete bloody ignornace, I will also add my thoughts! Hugs 2shoes x

2shoes i dont really tend to post here or do anything to technical, but i read the thread that you were refferrng too, and im disgusted, absolutely livid on your behalf x

I'm with you 2shoes.

I wish people would just come out and say they want an amnio because they want to know for sure to terminate, not to prepare, as half the time I guess that is what is going to happen.

Before I had a baby I felt I would have terminated a child with a disability <immensely ashamed> but when we had a threatened m/c everything changed.

I was presented with problems with one of my DC and it just made me love him more. This will sound all wrong and stupid, and I apologise, but I almost felt cheated when he was born NT as I was expecting a SN child.

i think its pissing everyone off. I try to be as balanced as possible as I do understand peoples worries but I dont understand the venom and backbiting hardly anyone seems to do it from this pov. I think society ides of everything has to be 'perfect' is most at fault. Everything has to planned down to a T and everything has to be just so. Life isnt like that unlukily and shit happens, weird you cannot point that out even in a nice way

and my dd dribbles, its hardly the end of the world

I've been lurking on SN for ages, waiting for my DS1 to get a dx (he now has: ASD), and it's been reading about how wonderful the kids whose mums come on here are (and how annoying, just like any other kids!) that has helped me to realize that SN is just another country, no more scary really than the one my (so far) NT DS2 inhabits. Anyway, I wanted to make my first SN post to say how I am that you have been made to feel like this

The people who see disability as something to be feared/killed off should try reading books like "Dasha's Journal" by T O Daria, or "The Myriad Gifts of Asperger's Syndrome" by John M Orwitz. Such positive books, showing the good points of each individual with a disability instead of just a depressing list of things-they-can't-do.

Books like that have made such a difference to me and my outlook on life, realising the things I'm actually better at than many other people. (I can find visual information at lightning speed, I can hear when a piano is even slightly out of tune, I can spot ceiling lights that are about to fail well before other people, I can concentrate on something for impossible hours without tiring, etc. I just couldn't explain any of it beforehand.) To give one example, most children with AS have extraordinary abilities of one kind or another - it's just that people are so used to thinking "their way" that they miss these abilities completely, because they misinterpret them , or lack the skills to hear what their child hears, see what their child sees.

It's like the child who would scream at her bedroom wall for hours. The parents put it down to being a destructive obsession, but in reality she could hear a failing electrical cable that was well on the way to being a fire hazard. When it was investigated, the electrician said that she'd probably saved their lives.

Not every child will have an identifiable amazing ability, but I do wonder how many are missed because most people lack the skills to realise what's happening.

As human beings we all have things we can't do and things we can't commnicate that well, or things we find really hard. It doesn't have to define us and be the only thing that matters. I wish they'd realise it and stop treating almost all people with disabilities as if they don't deserve to live on the same planet as supposedly more perfect people, or as failures or something broken. sigh

2Shoes, I am so sorry that you had to read those comments.I've posted my last comment on that thread, I am so disgusted!

I'm astonished that there's someone on there who thinks that children with disability-related behavioural issues should be put down. Just astonished.

the tragic thing is that these people have decided they are right because the once met someone, or know someone who works in sn. they then think that they have the right to make judgement.
my concern is where does it end. when will they just decide all disabled children should be murdered.

Big hug, 2shoes. Everyone on this thread knows that children with disabilities help us all to be better people. I've changed as a person since living with and working in SN. Perhaps the people with nasty comments haven't had the opportunity to get to know disabled kids?

Fucking ignore them 2shoes, they just arent worth even one moment of your time.xx

what I find shocking is that there is someone on that thread who claims to have a disability and yet who states that not all disabled peoples' lives are worth living. And that it should come down to money ffss! . Surely as someone with a disability she will have encountered prejudice, so to heap similar prejudices on to other I just find inconceiveable.

I'm certainly not the most knowledgeable, nor the most tactful poster regarding SN, I'll be honest I have no fucking idea about any of it, it's not my life, but it is many peoples lives and I don't think anyone has a right to decide if that life is worth living.
I'm sorry this has upset you 2shoes, I really hope for these ignorant peoples' children's sakes they never have an accident that leaves them less than 'perfect'.

i seem to have missed the whole thread but got very angry about the 'its not pc' one. i did comment on it as felt i had to.

what mabs says

I also read the abortion thread and felt sickened by the comments, and feel very grateful that I don't know anyone with those views in RL (I hope!).

2shoes I'm so sorry you were upset by the comments as well.

Now someone suggests pregnant women have the right to drink to excess if they want, because it's their body and their choice, no matter what happens to the baby. Gee whizz. Are these people 'trolls'? I'm finding it hard to believe they would honestly hold these views.

May i suggest ignoring threads like those?

You can't change another person's opinion, no matter how wrong or right it may be. Why spend time reading something that will upset you, 2shoes. There are plenty of ignorant souls in this world. Some of them will never change. Are these people worth getting upset over? No way, Jose!

Remember that in life, you have to choose your battles wisely. Some people/situations are better left alone. Focus on what you can change and on what makes you happy.

Now go and have some chocolate and forget about the silly threads. Don't read them!

I think it is important that views like that are challenged TB, after all the people they are talking about can't speak for themselves.

People who post those sorts of views are in denial about life. No matter how wonderful their normal child is now, in a few years ( sorry to be depressing on a monday morning) he/she will be just another ordinary middle aged/elderly person who makes 'demands' on the system. Whether a person requires full time care all their life or 'only' for the last 20 years of a life, the value of the life is the same. They are building their own funeral pyres if they want a society in which no one has the right to exist unless they are healthy and attractive. Or maybe they want a 'Logan's Run' society in which everyone is killed at the age of 30 ( I'd have been gone long ago)

Some people aren't worth challenging Tchanger. It's better to ignore the silly morons.

You can talk all you like, but some people just don't change how they think. I challenged everyone on my DD's behalf and at the end of the day, I became emotionally drained. So now, I focus on my DD and finding help for her. Why let something someone you don't even know says bother you?

IKWYW about ignorance being v draining

To make you feel a bit better, 2shoes, I used to take pictures of everyone who stared at my DD.

I stopped because, although I managed to embarass a lot of people, I still couldn't change their attitude toward my DD.

To make you feel a bit better, 2shoes, I used to take pictures of everyone who stared at my DD.

I stopped because, although I managed to embarass a lot of people, I still couldn't change their attitude toward my DD.

I think you need to pick your battles TB. I know it gets so tiring, but some things just can't be left unchallenged I think and this was one of them. But I think the points have been made and hopefully some of those posters will think a bit more carefully in future.
Sadly I think there are a couple who won't.

you know at least the person who made the initial comment came back, explained and apologised which is more than the other comments i have just read on there. Someone wants to murder a child in a skateboarders outfit

I find, if I do have to challenge someone, its more effective when its in real life, face to face. Sometimes people have to see something to believe it.

Who the hell said that, FioFio? He or she sounds like a right charmer, shithead.

but fio does the apologt count. It was a long time comming and would it have happened if the post was aggreed with?

Well I tend to accept apologies at face value, so for me it was enough and the poster doesnt appear to have been offensive on other threads (not that I know of anyway) Tbh I didnt even see the post as I posted after it and didnt even see but it was right she was pulled up on it whether she meant her apology or not

I get you
I have just seen red over thease comments.

Sorry to crash your thread. I really felt I should find you and apologise again for any offence and upset that I so obviously caused.

Please believe me when I say I truely did not mean to come across as someone who is as hateful as some of the others on that thread.

My comments were made as part of the general debate of abortion. I dont know if you had read the rest of the thread but I have in no way expounded the belief that anyone one should be in the position to take another life after birth. Regardless of the circumstances.

I do believe in the right for a woman to choose to have a termination pre 20 weeks.

Once again I am horrified that people think that I am a bigoted, prejudiced and nasty person.
I shall leave now. And I shall be ever so carefull to properly read what I type in future. Thank you for taking the time to read this post.

thank you for the apology.

2shoes
I have not seen these threads because not on MN much over weekend, but just caught the sense of what has happened and wanted to hug you. You always give such a balanced view on life and have helped me enormously in the past.
wotz [hugs]

Ronshar, thank you for your considerable grace and courage in realising that words had 'let us down'. It's so hard to convey things accurately by words alone, and I guess a subject like this is as emotive as any can be. I hope peace breaks out soon, for all our sakes.

Thank you Ronshar