SALT has reccomended this program for me to go on for DS who doesnt speak very well. I am not against going to "group" things, I went on 2 positive parenting courses when DS1 was a handfull but this Hanen Program lasts for 12 weeks and I would have to extend DS and DD pre school hours to be able to attend which would be quite expensive. Also they film you (me actually, the parents interacting with DS) which to be honest makes me feel like I am on trial.
I have made the decision not to go on this course because there will be a couple of weeks where I will be unable to go, but just wondered if anyone out there had been on this course or advised to go on this course by their SALT.

I'm a SALT and although I don't use Hanen myself a lot of my colleagues do and a lot of the families i work with have been on it.

Most have found it useful and enjoyed being with other families facing similar situations.

I would really advise you to make every efoert to attend. SALT services are so stretched that this might be all you are offeres.

If this had been available here I'd have signed up smartish. I used the hanen programme' It takes two to talk' book at home and have to say, it was the most useful comprehensive guide for parents I came across. We had no advice whatsover from our NHS SALT about suitable reading material or helpful organisations.

Please don't take this the wrong way but I'd implore any parent to seek professional help for children with speech difficulties as soon as possible. We let our son down in this respect.

Early intervention for speech language disabilities gives the best possible outcome. It isn't always apparent early on which children have a speech delay and which have impairment/disorder. We thought we knew better and wanted to 'leave Ds to be a little boy'

T, ypou didn't let anyone down.
Noone can predict anything and I think you were quite right to let him be.As it stands you are on the ball, I mean really on the ball and that is fab.
Please don't waste enrgy feeling guilty.

I have just signed up for a Hanen course but I'm not quite sure when it starts - soon I hope as I have heard so many good things about it ! It depends what your son's problem is really, as TC says, some children may pick up over time whereas others will need more help and it can be hard to spot the difference early on.

I would have to travel 10 miles each way and pay for 2 possibly 3 hours extra child care. Its money I dont have to be honest and over 12 weeks it all adds up. I wondered if there are any books to go with the program that I could use

If the course was local I would do it in an instant. The problem lies in getting someone to care for DS and DD OR affording the extra time in nursery/pre school, and also arranging someone to look after all 3 children when schools are closed for holidays. 12 weeks is a long time when you have to travel and juggle child care arrangments.

Bite their hands off - . I've also got the book, Tclanger mentions, (horribly expensive and worth it). The whole tone was enabling parents to help their child. So, it should be really supportive and I'm so envious. Speak to them about the weeks you can't go - that must be a situation they are used to. Then, please, please come back here and tell me all about it.

Thanks moondog,we are doing all we can. if hindsight were foresight we'd all be genius'
(or should that be geniuses perhaps genies?

Bigkk, there are some hanen books on this websight provided by TC for my blogwww.winslow-press.co.uk/cgi-bin/Winslow.storefront

I only have one DS a nightmare with transport BKK, so fully appreciate what it must be like to juggle 3 children! Just type Hanen into the quick shop bit, I realised my link doesn't take you to the right page.

I went on a Hanen course at a surestart centre for kids at risk of speech delay, it was very helpful, but unfortunately wasn't run by qualified salt but by an EP and a childcare worker , so had its limitations. Am on waiting list (since Nov!) for the It Takes Two to Talk course. Advantage of the course is that it should include some extra SALT visits over and above what you would get normally. I really would make every effort to do it, it's very helpful. If you are daunted by the videoing - if you read the course book first, and put the principles into practice, then you should get everything right anyway iyswim.

Your ds doesn't speak very well....maybe it will work?!?!

All I know for my ds who was non verbal it was a waste of time. We did It takes two to talk book. I was actualy given negative feedback from Specialist Play Therapist on day of dx for not playing with ds and that I was playing wrong with ds ...this was the way I was shown on HANEN. I do feel HANEN is for first time mothers helping to develop language and communication with NT children
I was told to let ds take the lead....be on his level....I just ended up stimming with ds. ABA did as Play Therapist suggested...taught him to play and still does.

If my ds could learn from HANEN he would not have Autism. As this is basic stuff for most NT kids.

i have written a huge msg about Hanen on another thread - will try and find the link.

However in short - of you have the chance - do it!!!! Do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are not on trial - it is great to look back at what you did and get feedback and we were given a compiled video of what we had done over the course and it was interesting to see the start and finish.

We had some children who were non verbal - some signed, some used words and sign like our dd and others just vocalised. It is not just about getting them to speak it is about encouraging communication. Hang on - will try and find other msg and cut and paste.

Pipin - We had children with a range of conditions on our course - some with autism. There is actually a separate course developed by Hanen for use with children with autism. I know the parents who had a little lad with autism did the basic course with us but also got hold of the other book. Let me see if I can hunt that down too Pippin.

It is called More than Words Pippin.

short thread here

I can't find it.

I did find it really useful. I was nervous about the videoing but our SALT who did it was so unobtrusive that you soon forgot they were there. It was also helpful to see what others were doing and things that you may be able to use with your child. There really is no feel of being judged with it. It is so helpful for feedback - especially positive stuff.

It is a huge committment but we found it was worth every minute of it. We had a few weeks were others in our group couldn't make it and it was no problem.

I must say we were very lucky as our local disability services were introducing this - we were part of the first group to do it. Another couple and dh and I were unable to get childcare and so they provided it for us. It was a federal govt department so probably money there for it. Is there some way you could perhaps find help with the childcare funding?

Speaking as someone who's new to the whole SLD diagnosis, would you recommend the Hanen "It Takes Two to Talk"? I'm tempted to buy the DVD and book. What I really need at the moment is strategies to help my DD want to play with me and learn. She frequently blanks me out when I try to talk with her at the moment, I think it's just all too stressful for her. Doesn't help that her baby brother is just at the 'can't take your eyes off him for a second' stage of crawling and pulling himself up on the furniture. If anyone has strategies for getting a child to engage in 'floor time', I'd be grateful!

I don't have any suggestions - as the hanen program seemed to emphasise that learning was something that could take place doing anything - from a nappy change, to putting on shoes, getting dressed. The whole premise seemed to be to embed communication in all that you do - prattle away whilst driving - 'oh look a truck.' etc rather than do it at a set sit down time. You know - we did an activity around shoes on and off. looking at sorting out communicating the need for shoes on or off.

If you can follow that. Perhaps make it a game of finding ds, or look ds is crawling, Look! ds is standing etc. Where is ds? - he is there!

I know we found that idea so easy to just communicate - like a running commentary through the day with lots of repetition and simple phrases and words - hence the 'shoes on','shoes off'.

Again it does not need to be about words - if dd1 signed or vocalised shoes on and off - that is fine too.

i can honestly say it really did help dd1 communicate more and it gave us strategies that became second nature to help facilitate her communication skills.

I really did like the idea of making it something of your daily routine rather than a sit down do at a set time for a set time - especially as we had a newborn at the time!!

As I said it may help some dc....but ds didn't. The Specialist Play Therapist told me off for playing ds wrongly....On HANEN I was told to let ds take the lead be on level with ds and copy ds....all I did was copy ds stimming...so when I told SPT about this she saaid no ds has to be taught to play...which is still what I do now. I did follow the programme to the dot and the book....all I learned was HANEN is good for some kids with speech communication delay but ds needed a different approach so it did not work for him.
My ds had severe communication and social skill difficulties...maybe HANEN is to watered down for severe issues with communication and for dc with some skills.
Maybe when ds is a lot more independant and has more development of skills including speech, communication and play then HANEN may help.

All I know is my ds experience and after 9 weeks on HANEN no result.Only 5 weeks on the therapy he is now he started to point and 9 weeks started to make verbal approximations....which now not a year later he can say sentences, request, command. I know he would not be nowhere near this stage if I only used the HANEN principles. As I say my ds experience not damning it for every child....my motto in life now is try everything as it's not a one fits all solution that sadly education authorities seem to believe....but that's another thread.

Oh god I dont know what to do. I think it would help DS as he is talking, but not as well as he should be. There are no obvious underlying issues and he has been seen by paed, ed psych, SENCO etc. I feel sick at the thought of not going and regretting it so will probably go. There was an information meeting last Thursday but I couldnt go as DS1 has broken his arm and we had an appointment at fracture clinic. I also really dont like the thought of being filmed and dont think DS will cooperate in front of a camera (he wont cooperate for the SALT, thats why she has reccomended this course)

BKK, perhaps you could ask your health visitor her advice. The last thing you need to do is feel guilty, its just that there is so little help here. I think I jumped in a bit quick to say grab it, based on my Ds's experiences/nightmare. You could also give he course leader a ring and have a chat.Do they have a creche for instance?

Pippin - I was curious at the time to see what was different from the standard Hanen program and the one designed with children with Autism in mind. As I posted - I think the book is called More than Words - might be worth a look for you.

The course is called "It takes two to talk" and the speech therapist feels she isnt making the progress she would like with DS because he doesnt want to play the games she plays to get him to talk. Where as he is happy to play the games HE likes at home and pre school (She goes to pre school occasionally to work with him and offer advice to the staff)
There may be a creche (I would have found this out at the info meeting that I couldnt get to)
The book is £££s so am going to try to borrow it from the library

my motto in life now is try everything as it's not a one fits all solution.... doesn't work try something else for your dc at least you know and if you only take one thing I say that is priceless...your dc has vebal language so not severe as my ds was...they should not have sent me at that time as I was so upset each week as the home work was to get dc to say i.e bubbles then I would blow some.....ds could not say a sound and would stare at me it was so depressing another mother lost her rag one day as her ds was nonverbal also and said this is for children who already have language it wasn't a autism specific group as their were other disabilities and I borrowed the book from the class made notes and gave it back.

pipin - i am gobsmacked at how the group was run. I know we had a few children who were non verbal and the idea was to get them to do anything to communicate - vocalise, point, even use their eyes, facial expression whatever. Seems strange the focus on words and set activities - we could chose our activities especially those that were videoed.

I can remember how much our salt stressed it was not about words or getting them to talk but for them to communicate in whatever way they chose.

It does sound as though the person presenting it was focused on words rather than communication. We had one little girl who was totally non verbal and she would respond by banging/tapping the table for one activity - that was her way of communicating.

If you can't get it you, can have my copy, its not the most recent edition, as I donated that one to the school,http://sunshinetc.blogspot.com/

The email is on the right of my blog, under the pic of the boys.

Sorry make that right hand side, also here's the working link again, forgot the brackets again. sunshinetc.blogspot.com/

they did pointing as well but ds could not point either.....I didn't know their was a autism HANEN what the difference?

actually eidsvold it was at this I realised how bad ds was....the SALT said after last video session 'we are all deeply concerned how severe ds communication and play is' which really blew me away at 2.6 months old. It actually gave me the push to get help privately which was the best thing ever...maybe ds would not be where he is today without HANEN

i have not read the one created for use with children with autism but I remember the couple who had a little boy with autism who were part of this group taking the book away from our group for a few weeks and getting ideas from there.

Hi. I did the course 'It Takes Two to Talk', it was run over 2 hours for 6 weeks and I found it fantastic. I was really hesitant about the filming but actually it was great, and by the time we did it in the course, we'd made good friends and it was great to see other people's kids as we'd talked so much about them. I did get a bit frustratd in a few areas as my DS had no words at that time. I still see three of the mums socially and we also have playdates - I'd recommend it to anyone. I'm told you can get your library to order the book in too if that helps, and i think you can gain a lot just from reading it. Good luck!

Thanks eidsvold...I guess it's like pipinjo says, there aren't "one size fits all" solutions to these things. My DD does actually talk, and her expressive isn't BAD, what we're trying to work on with her is social skills and playing, hence the floor time idea. I've been given specific exercises in "turn-taking" by the SALT. DD's real problem is that her understanding is so poor for her age and she gets no help at school so no reason not to go off into her own little world! If I prattle away at her / running commentary, she gets really upset.

hi if you post a big 'have you got this book' someone might have it to lend you

I say that because a year or so ago I sent the Two to Talk book ffp to a mner because I didn't need it anymore and she said she would pass it on to someone when she had finished with it

I can't remember which mner it was though sorry

brioche - how old is your child? I have recently started playing pairs/snap with my dds aged 5 ( sn) and 3 (nt) and we talk about taking turns. Taking turns to put cards down worked well. I did not mind the snap part not working but worked on turn taking with dd1 especially. It can be painful and agonising but we do it when I have pizza dough rising or lasagne in the oven cooking etc. That might be something to do - just a thought.

Pipin, agree with what you say re Hanen and Autism.
It isn't appropriate for those children.
A lot of SALT isn't appropriate for children with Autism actually. i wish SALT depts. would appreciate this.

I can't believe someone else agrees with me and esp with your expert knowledge and expeiernce...thanks Moondog for saying that.
SALT wrote a damning report at tribunal as I went against their grain...I actually fought hard for ds to win SALT and OT and to be honest SALT has not bothered yet or OT and to be honest don't give a damn as ds would not be where he is today with language and communication without well you can guess what it is .....I think it should be offered to every child with autism first.....but it is hard work and they have not got the commitment for autism in this country as several I could mention....SALTs feel threatened y this therapy....would defo do them out of autism specialist jobs.

Well Pipin, I am doing an mSc in ABA and once again, agree with everyone you say.
Most SALT provision in UK for people with Autism is a disgrace and an embarassment and it's about time we started up some honest dialogue about it.

In the best place outside America to do it I would say Moondog. A shame Wales who do it in 3 universities don't fund it more for children? Hutt should be thrown out to be honest. Never listened or even responded when I complained.

I and other people are grateful of your new knowledge you share on here. Thanks.

Pipin, do you have an LEA funded programme?
If not, have you considered fighting for one?

Thanks Moondog! Was tutoring on my own for best part of year....Fought and won ...though has nearly killed me the stress of it tribunal was soooo hard.

Want to do the Msc now but without a dime to pay for it am stuck.. Never mind as long as ds got it till he is 7-8, I'm worried they will take it off him so want to prepare... but serious has totally changed our lives would NEVER be without it. They were very good to me up your way...you probably know who they are but would never say names on here!

Keep us all updated on how you getting on as you share so much with us on here and we do really appreicate it.

I bet it did Pipin.
It breaks my heart the way people suffer as they do, it really does.

I can imagine 'our lot' were good.They are stars, I love them. Am at present preparing a day session on ABA that i will be running with course co-ordinator (Carl Hughes,he wouldn't mind me saying) and a fellow student.I am inviting all SALTS and all people in Special Needs world.

Will be interesting to see who turns up!

I must phone them, to tell them I won. It's maddening that I live in the most populated part with Autism and the services are most dia!!!

They really gave me a life line and I will never be able to thank them enough!

Good luck with the presentation....do you plan to stick with ABA after the Msc or will you return as the most qualified SALT in Autism treatment in Europe.....we will be banging your door down for assessments esp for tribunal.....one woman after ABA pro SALT recently in ABA site!

You should invite WAG's along....maybe you will convert them as the city they practice in don't even know what it is!

What is/are WAGS?

I incorporate ABA into all my work now more or less and the response is really positive.

I have considered private work too.
I certainly see it as integral to everything i do now.It has been such an exciting 2 years for me.I am revived and inspired.

I see it as my mission now to explode lots of myths and demonstrate that it is not weird and creepy and robotic. I think people take it quite well form me as have been knocking about for 12 years and in senior position.Also a bit of a lentil weaver with huge love for stuff like Music Therapy which throws folk a bit!They can't see that both approaches can work together. After all, ABA is quite simply the science of learning effectively.

Yes, let them know you won!

Sorry Welsh Assembley Gov. I was speaking to P Davies she help put Autism stratergy together. I was trying to explain ABA to her today but she doesn't really know ABA...SALT told me ds would be robot made me laugh to stoneage views!

I am so pleased that other professionals take this approach serious.....you will be sadly a rare and in demand SALT. Wish I could have got to Flintshire as so much more their....I am at the opposite end of the country and no where near the services and the Capitol..very bad...the university has huge influence which is fab.

Of course it is WAG! Duh!!!
Salt talking through her arse.