I found this article today..........I thought it was very moving,,,, what a decision that lady made... dont think i could do it though!
www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/you/article.html?in_article_id=522925&in_page_id=1908

good grief. When dd was younger and the docs saying she would never know who we were and she screamed 18 hours a day I did wish I could give her away. I never slept, my marriage broke down and my eldest daughter ran away from home because of the strain. I spent hours on the phone trying to get respite help.
DD is now 4, severely physically impaired and still a poor sleeper. But she's intelligent, no longer screams and is a delight (although at 3am this morning when she was laughing her head off and did so till 7am she was not a delight)
Sometimes I wonder if my ledest would have stayed and the last 4 years have been such a bleak nightmare if we had given dd away. But we've emerged from it ,mostly unscathed, apart from dd1.
So yes, I can see why she did it but I couldn't. And its not just the sheer hardness of having a severely brain injured child, its the total lack of support and hours and hours given up to phone calls and stupid meetings to get that support.
If it had been in place then maybe dd1 would still be at home and my family not destroyed

how very sad. If only "Tania's" were routinely available on a p/t time basis before parents reached cracking point. I was appalled by the diary entry where a doctor said after the scan that Immie had no intelligence at all.

disgusting is what i say. thank god for tania.

I don't feel I can judge her when my DS is not so severely affected by his SN but the whole story struck me as desperately sad as presumably her husband would leave her if she developed MS or something and if one of the other daughters fell under a bus and was brain damaged, she would have to go too - I don't know what to say as I don't know how I would care for Immie either but it looks as if the mother's 'family life' is just a sham based on shallow attachments and in the end that is more damaging to her than 'having to' care for a severely handicapped child. I can see how demanding the care required is but that is the fault of society for not offering the right level of respite and social care to families affected in this way.

i thought she was awfull tbh. have no time for people like that. and to then use her dd for an article and a book.

9 out of 10 marriages with SN child fail. Minenearly has and dd is not far off Immie. Every day is pretty shit with more of the same to look after. I can see why she did what she did even if I wouldn't.

nmc I understand where you are coming from. but would you then talk about it in a magazine, with photos and write a book?
seem she is using the situation.
there are plenty of dc's at dd's school where the parents have split or are borderline and where dc's spend 99% of their time at the school or are in care(school is not residential) so I know it is common.
just don't understand why she feels the need to do this so publicly. if it is to thank the foster mum then surely the paper could have done an article.

oh and to add. the title says she had to give her child away. she didn't.

I suspect the book is therapy. And it sounds as if she comes from the sort of "chattering classes" background (not that I much like that term) where writing a book about your life is an absolutely routine thing to do.

Rang a lot of bells with me though as you say NMC in the same position we didn't take the same decision. Not that we've emerged at all - let alone unscathed - but ykwim.

I think the problem really is the way she is still trying to portray herself as being on the side of the Angels - 'We make her chocolate cake and we let her see our normal daughter on fridays and my brother the famous actor (?) is raising money etc etc.' I understand the dilemma but there is a lack of humility in her approach. She did what she did because she is a weak and fallible person as we all are, but she seemed to looking for sympathy on the basis that she is some kind of victim. Also it was quite chilling the way she said packed up the breast pump when she realised the baby had problems - the Marie Antoinette attitude , Let it drink formula ! I personally don't have strong feelings either way about types of baby milk but making the switch like that seemed a bit harsh.

I found the article writen from 'of course we gave away the disabled baby, who wouldn't?' mindset.
I bet their were lots of nodding heads saying yes, we would give 'it' away too, how ghastly etc etc

NMC i think you have hit the nail on the head. that is what most likely got my back up.

I did wonder though how far things might have been different if she had had any support from her DH - obviously this extract is a very limited version of one side of the story, but it would appear she had absolutely zero support from him.

Not sure what I feel about this. But I think you do have to be careful about judging someone from a book extract. The magazine will have selected passages that tell the story they want to tell and the abridged version probably makes it all sound much more cold and calculated than perhaps it really was. The headline will also have been written by a journalist for maximum impact so I don't think you can hold that against the author.

As for why she wrote a book in the first place, who knows? but perhaps there was some kind of message there about the lack of support available and what it can drive you to? I don't know that, but maybe there is a lot more in the book?

I would never have given dd1 away btw, and if dh had given me that ultimatum I think it would have been him that went. So I'm not saying for one minute I agree with her. Just that I work in publicity so I know how things can get twisted in the media.

god I'm not sure what I think of that at all.

I don't think anyone can judge another person's situation without actually living it. I'd imagine she hasn't told the whole story, or the Mail has been selective in its editing. Not everyone is able to cope with disability, however close to them it happens (how many parents have posted here about disinterested grandparents?) I did wonder if there was some post natal depression involved here too. As for the partner's ultimatum, I can imagine how he'd reach that point, emotionally, though it's been made to sound incredibly harsh. I'm deferring judgement till I've walked a mile in her shoes.

most of us have walked in those shoes at some time. I still find the whole thing the book and article odd.

I agree with heart - the media will select and put their own bias on it. It is clear that this family are professional, home counties, monied and educated. Is that why it seemed 'easy' (I mean in practical terms not emotionally) for them to leave the baby? Is it that easy just to say 'no I'm not picking her up' and lo and behold it all gets solved??? I cannot comment on what she did - I've been driven bonkers by both of my DS (one with SEN but aspie,dyspraxicie SEN not profound LD and the other no SEN) so I can't judge someone else. Motives for doing it? Perhaps she is seeking to help others or make it acceptable to acknowledge the emotion 'we can't cope'. The worry for me is that, just like Needmore, there are hundreds and thousands feeling 'I can't cope' but no Consultants waving magic Tania's at them.

Also very interesting about Tania making this type of fostering a career decision - perhaps it should be promoted far more as this to people earlier on.

The main thing is that Immie has got the best care possible, the family are united and let's hope Tania sticks with it.

how are the family "united" if they have left the child with someone else?

i cant read it tonight but i am saddened if not suprised that 9 out of 10 marriages fail when an sn child is involved. I just hope we arent one of them
unluckily my parents were

but we are a new generation arent we? (tries to ignore dd's single parent school status)

Mmmmm don't think much of the Husband, telling the Mum to choose, tho am aware that the article is only a small extract from the book. I think it comes across as very matter of fact.

If writing the book, highlights the stresses families with disabled Children go through, then it's a good thing. Although most people who have disabled children do not give them up. Not really sure what experience other than the first few Months of caring for the baby, the Mum had. Obv she has to live with giving her up.

Reckon we could all write books !!

She mentions the respite place and says
'It's the only place where Tania can get respite – for 14 nights a year Immie goes there and is seriously pampered.'

It highlights the lack of support to carers.. 14 nights out of 365 woopee doo dah!! And many families don't even get that

I probably would buy the book, once it comes out in paperback!!!

why is dd down as single parent fio? Is that because dh works away. Perhaps it's meant to translate into more support

This article has disturbed me tbh. Lots of people at ds1's school cope with similar situations. I do take on board the comments that HITC made about media etc but it does read a bit as if the daughter was inconvenient, or not part of the deal or in some way expendable because of her disability. I know its hard but you don't just give up your dd (and asked to choose between a child or a husband... well..... my marriage couldn't survive being told to make that decision)

thing is, I've walked that mile in her shoes, and considerably more but I didn't give up at 3 months of age. Sure it was horrendously hard but she does seem to have given up rather quickly and her dh!!!
I've had 4 years now of epilepsy and severely disabled with cerebral palsy and while I've felt like running away many times I have never done so. dd is as physically impaired as Immie.

I couldn't imagine giving up dd, it would tear me apart (and yes, she does have the same level of disability as Immie). This article saddened me hugely,on so many levels. I found it very sad that as a couple they were unable to see Immie's personality separate from the disability. My dd may not be bright, but I know that she's sparky, sociable, has a good sense of humour and a rather tomyboyish nature (all this without her being able to walk or talk - shock horror ).

Yes, thank God that there are people like Tania. However, I was amazed that they thought raising money for HH was more appropriate than offering Tania some respite themselves and spending some time with their dd .

Yes I think you're right. She would have been sparky playful. But obviously her mother doesn't think she is now. What a shame. There are children with her level of disability on ds1's bus & I would say they are sparky and playful, even to me who they barely know.

I'm still really really unsure about this article.

It's certainly written in a sensationalist fashion. Although as HITC points out that could well be the paper (and the DM at that).

I just can't read it without feeling overwhelmingly sad for Immie.

I found the fundraising thing a bit weirdly dissociated iyswim.

I was thinking of the contrast between the doctors who said that Immie had no intelligence and if she was "typical" would be sparky and playful (how on earth could they know that, all children are different?) and Tania, to whom Immie was just Immie and who noticed that she loved chocolate.

well she made her choice and chose the man. went on to marry him and have another child. so i think this is just tragic.

I felt a bit sick reading that, but can't help thinking that Tania is the best thing that could have happened for that poor child.

no yurt I meant most of dd's school consists of mums coping with the children often completely alone. Not even a visiting weekend father situation iykwim. I always remember my friends husband saying he couldnt cope with their son when he was diagnosed with a devastating degenerative condition as if she could cope? He skipped the country and she hasnt seen him since (he is apparently running a bar in portugal)

I will trya nd get round to reading the article now

I have just read the article and I think my haert just broke a little.

Off to cuddle my kids.

" told her we needed help from Social Services – it seemed the right way to acknowledge this new inability of mine to cope. She said, "It's hard to get anything out of Social Services."

I rose to the challenge. "How do I do it?"

"They have to believe that the baby is in danger." "

I am not being funny but wtf is all that about??? If they needed more support, which they would have with a profoundly disabled child then you need more help. Your child does not have to be in any danger!

She sounds to me like she could have done with talking to a good therapist and growing up a bit. None of us chose to have disabled children but most of us were strong enough to deal with it. I just dont understand that woman and her husband sounds like a spoilt child

I am really sorry I really cannot not be judgemental. I have tried very very hard. I hope its as HITC says and its been taken out of context. My dp girl works in a respite home and alot of the children have to live their full time as their parents cannot cope at home. Maybe its the same here but been twisted. I dont know

as an aside she was 14 years older than I was when I had dd

Oh I see fio

I was pondering this thread at 4am when ds1 was skipping around and trying to work out why I found it so disturbing.

I can understand that people get to the stage they can't cope with the caring anymore,or that they need more people involved (god knows we're heading there as I'm about to tell SS) but in this case she hadn't really done any caring. She'd had 5 mnths of a baby. So it wasn't the day in day out difficulties of dealing with a disabled child that she couldn't deal with. It reads from the article as if it was just having a disabled child that was impossible for her/her husband. And it kind of reads as if its OK for that to happen to someone else. Just not them.

And the way she dumped her in hospital......and throwing all her stuff out. I think any sympathy I had disappeared at that stage. It shows such a lack of care, a lack of decency and seems to demonstrate that they placed little value on their daughter's life. Would they have left their other daughters like that and if not why not? What was the difference between them?

I found the fundraising thing a bit odd.

I would love to know Tania's take on it all!

oh fio the angry thing was to your post about the men all scarpering.

I agree with your post.

Agree she (and particularly he) needed to grow up.

I was also a bit that she went onto have another child tbh.

was ok for tania to care for as tania had chosen to do it and they hadnt and if she (the mother) had chosen to look after a disabled child then it would be ok, but not her own (???) Err ok then love

I wonder what view social services have on this kind of situation tbh. If you have a 'normal' child and give them up for adoption (or long term foster care) if you then go on to have another child SS are involved straightaway from what I understand. I cannot see why this would be any different if the child was disabled. I mean what if the third daughter had been disabled would tania have had to look after it aswell?

and i dont understand the dad sleeping downstairs either. DD was a screamer and dh never slept downstairs. He used to take her downstairs to listen to mtv though at 2am when she wouldnt shut up. We were young aswell. I hadnt fucked about in a choir for 15 years, what jolly good fun surely having a life before in a way would make it easier to make sacrifices

and what was the relevance of the failed job application? Lets blame that on the disabled kid as well shall we?

I have been thinking about this. even spoke to dh and in the end i think it is all bollocks.
the mother gave up the child because it wasn't perfect enough for her perfect family. the dad is a dipstick and one day it will all come back and bite her on the bum. when her perfect children become adults and realise what their mother did. will they respect her??
I was 34 when I had dd and so not a natural mum. i had a nt toddler and not a pot to piss in. it was massively hard. especially when no one would listen and believe dd was not right. we had no support from family or freinds. But guess what we got on with it and coped. just like 99.9% of people on the sn board. it is called love.
why if she didn't want the child did she not let her be adopted and have a proper mum and family.

oh and dh would have cut of his arm rather than give dd away.

I too found the article uncomfortable reading.

Dd1 is nowhere near as affected, and god knows, I have had my days of self-pitying "why me? I didn't ask for a disabled child", and of course the generic "it's just not faiirrr!"

If I am totally honest, when dd1 has been at her worst - days of unending tantrumming, shouting, dmeanding cuddles then instantly pushing me away to shout for another cuddle - there have been times when I have thught I really cannot cope. And that dd1 would be better off with someone who can.

BUT.

and that says it all really:

but she is MY daughter, mine and no-one else's (well, dh had a hand in it I s'pose )

but no-one else would love her the way I do (egotistical view point I know)

but it is ME she needs (god, that really does sound vain)

No one thinks their child may be disabled when you get pregnant, but I did find her reasoning chilling.

She was prepared to breastfeed, until it was pointed out that her child was permanently disabled. Then Immie was not worth the bother. THat really made me

And to wipe out any memory of her existence in the house once she was gone - what must that have meant to the other child, coming home tofind that all trace of her sister had been wiped out? What a confusing time.

I was also saddened by the part where she said something along the lines of "and Tania said Immie liked chocolate", as though this were not soemthing that either 1)she ahd noticed or 2) thought was actually a fact (ie something Tania liked to think was true, but the mother knew better that actually Immie was not capable of likes/preferences)

Agree totally. The dad was a dipstick wasn't he 2shoes

What youre describing above silverfrog is the difficulties of being a carer. And something I'm sure we can all recognise, and something that will no doubt become too much for many of us at some stage (I know it will me) at which stage our children/young people/adults will be cared for by others. But the article didn't strike me as being about that It was about rejecting a child because she was disabled, rather than because the difficulties of caring had got too much.

You're right the breastfeeding thing was weird.

I cant stop thinking about this. Why will they not let Tania adopt their daughter? That way Tania could get respiter herself and be the 'mother' that she so obviously is to that child. Why do they have to have her for a fortnight every so often? (was it twice a year?) Is this because she is their daughter or because it eases their guilt?

The article strikes me as she actually feels uncomfortable about what she did but wants someone to say, 'its ok I did it too and you are right'. I think she is in a very small minority and has forgotten that ist isnt the 1950s anymore

silverfrog, we all have times when we feel like we cannot cope. I think thats completely normal.

I've been thinking about this and actually wonder whether this scenario happens more than the average joe public member realises.

I think both parents were caught up in grief following Immie's birth and all their actions reflected this. I don't however, think that even with 110% support from the professionals and family they would have kept Immie within this family unit.

I thought the hospital did not seem unduly concerned by this woman's attitude. It all seemed very matter of fact.

Caring long term for a severely disabled child is a monumental task punctuated by much effort on the part of carers, a mountain of all sorts of bureaucracy and respite care which is extremely difficult to obtain. Small wonder therefore that a family unit can fracture under the strain.

When reading this article I thought of the lady in Essex who made the news with her disabled daughter, she never gave up her daughter. However, look at the problems they have faced; they've also had criticism from the disability rights organisations re her wish for her daugher to have surgery to stop periods from happening. Most people would crumble under the strain and I note her first marriage broke up because he could not "cope" with the realities of having a disabled child.

it does happen a lot. over the years I have met quite a few foster mums. but most "parents" would not use the situation to write a book.
fio i agree why don't they let the child go. they are so selfish.

She was on Radio 4's Womens Hour this morning - I didn't hear it, but will have a listen when I get home from work <interested emoticon>.

does she just want to be famous or something? I find this so bizarre

'Caring long term for a severely disabled child is a monumental task punctuated by much effort on the part of carers, a mountain of all sorts of bureaucracy and respite care which is extremely difficult to obtain. Small wonder therefore that a family unit can fracture under the strain.'

I agree with that, but this woman didn't do that. She didn't crack under the strain of caring. She just seemed unable to cope with the idea of having a disabled child.

I dont think its all her fault though, without wanting to stick up for her. She said she wanted her back but her husband said if she came home he would leave.. She sounds very weak

yes she chose her marriage with beardy over her child.

chonky- can you link if you find it...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/womanshour/03/200810tue.shtml

not sure if this works or not, just gonna have a listen myself.

oops just tried to listen to it, it says, 'sorry we can't bring you the programme you requested'

not sure if it's my link, or just in general?

i cant get it to play
bugger!

for me it isnt the link
my computer is just refusing to play it at all

Really disturbed by this woman's attitude. No-one asks for a child with a disability you get what you are given that is life and you deal with it.

To leave the child alone at hospital and not go back to pick her up is beyond belief and then to get rid of her stuff as if she never existed. Then going on to talk about cutting the ties- its so sad. Why could they not have had someone like Tania as a respite carer?

The saddest thing is the story the way she tells it like its all worked out for everyone and everyone is happy and how she has done a perfectly normal thing that anyone would do in her situation. She didn't even give it a real try. It doesn't bare thinking about what would have happened if foster carers dint exist. Yet maybe they would still justify their decision with an article about why they had to. I know that I'm not in her position but I believe she just gave up on Imme.

I think people need to go and read the book. I got online friends that have read the article and the book and they all felt that the article made her come across as hard and uncaring. That the subeditor may of been prejudiced.

do the proceeds of the book go towards the respite care do you know?

Talking of which have just had SS round talking about the importance of providing us with the support we need to keep us functioning as a family.

<<awaits panel decision on increase in dp's hours with baited breath>>

I'm sure there was some crafty editing, but I can't understand the decision to just not bother turning up to collect her. Then chucking her stuff out.

good luck with the panel hearing
I have given up

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/main.jhtml?xml=/health/2004/05/19/hbaby19.xml

that article is quite old and the mum still comes accross as cold, whereas tania sounds so forgiving. I wonder how much of this decsion to give up the child was more to do with the parents being unwilling togive up their current lifestyle

Can't test it, as still at work, but try this link...

does this work?

No mention of leaving her at the hospital in that one.

Also think it's quite irresponsible. I don't know droves of people with profoundly disabled children who suddenly decide they can't cope at 8 or 9 and beg social services to take them away. I know some people who find that the child needs a residential placement (which is very different from begging SS to take the child away) and I know many more who carry on caring for their child at home.

I only know one person who has begged for SS to take the child because she can't cope and that child is pretty high functioning (with very challenging behaviours).

No chonky- but it sounds as if the programme has been removed rather than any problem with the link.

It's there you need to listen to the current programe and fast forward it to 20 minutes. Just found it and listening to it now

colettemum3 i will not be reading the book and putting money into her purse. i read most things with a pich of salt. but you cannot change the fact that she gave her child away because the child was disabled..no other reason.

I completely agree with regards to the residential placement for alot of older profoundly disabled children becoming necessary. That is an entirely different scenario to begging SS to take the child away.

My friend begged SS to help her keep her profoundlydisabled son at home but SS would only support a residential place for him. It broke her heart

I still cannot listen to the link

i know a lot of people who have done everything and tried everything and had to get help as their child gets older due to the sheer size of the problem. but most have not given up and just given the child away.
I accept the fact that a time will come when I will not be able to look after dd 24/7 and live in dread of the day. by then though she will be an adult.
my bf has a severley disabled child(walker but no dx) when I was totally new to sn I asked her why she kept her dd at home. she said to me that she was her dd's security.
have to say that has been something I have remembered and now feel in my case.
like you fio I can't listen/read anymore links about this (as I get to )

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/womanshour/
On the right is "listen" click on the listen now latest programme.
Which will open another box and you can forward it to 20 minutes.

I don't think i be buying the book either but athough most people may think she heartless. She is still in regular contact with Immie and does help pay something towards her keep that to me says something.
The amount of stories you hear about people killing their child or abandon their child and signed away parential responsiblity.

But at the end of the day, something still needs to be done in giving parents more support , more respite etc. If this article can highlight that, then at least it has hopefully achieved something.

I had to make a decision re my son when he was seven, i felt he needed to be in a total communication enviroment. I applied for my son to go to the Royal School for Deaf Children in Margate, initially we were turned down then there were funding issues, i got very angry and in the end i rang up my local councillor and told him the story and basically said "right i voted for you what are you going to do to help me?" and he went to the council offices and within a day and a half i had confirmation of a place to start ten days later.
this is an amazing book which i read which is the opposite of this ladies story
www.amazon.co.uk/Henriettas-Dream-Mothers-Search-Freddie/dp/034083157X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qi d=1204651895&sr=8-1
and this is the site linked to the book
www.henryspink.org/home.htm

I read about Henrietta Spink on IPSEA's website some years back. This woman is truly inspirational.

This was the person whom Wandsworth Council paid a visit to when she was trying to get her children statemented - they accused her of asking for a "Rolls Royce" service. The council both bungled and fudged her case so badly its untrue.

lottiejenkins do you live in thanet? II do btw!_ does your son go to the school in margate now?

colettemum3 either article does not say she has regular contact with her daughter, it says she sees her for a fortnight a couple of times a year. The money she gives pays for tania to have respite (according to the article) Is the contact she has Imme for her own benefit or for Immes? Is it just to ease her guilt? like the article

You are right though the respite services are crap but she didnt even apply for 'respite' if either article is to be believed

Fiofio, i live in Suffolk, my son is at school in Margate now, he should stay there till he is 17/18 i hope!

lottie thats better a mother who has earn't the right to the name.
we have considered boarding school for dd. as luck would have it her present school is the best one for her. she has respite there. and as she gets older i will have it increased(no try I will)
I think sending your child to a school because you know your child and what they need is a totally different thing to waht this woman did.

Have just found this as well,
www.henriettasdream.org/stories.asp

that artacle is shocking.

I can see how someone can get so warn down by caring for a disabled child that they might want someone to take that child away, have no experience but can only imagine the strain that having to give 24 hour care, be up 2/3/4/more times a night for 1/5/10 years would put on the strongest person, and how you might reach a point of just wanting it all to end. But this woman had had three months. not with a severely disabled child, but with a baby. And lots of babies scream for the 1st 3/6 months of their lives, if they have colic or similar, so what she was going through at the time wasn't abnormal. It was what she might have been faced with after that that she clearly couldn't handle. And yet she couldn't possibly have known what the future held? but obviously a disabled child didn't fit into her life and so she chose her husband and walked away from her child.

And I think that what makes me angriest of all is the fact she went on to have another child. . and now Immy gets to visit her nt siblings on a friday - she's the disabled child that is allowed to be with her nt family at their convenience .

Although maybe on the flip side it's better that Immy is with someone who genuinely loves and cares for her, rather than with someone for whom she would only have been an inconvenience. .

What a shallow woman. I hope her other children grow up to see her for the person she really is. And to see their father for the bastard he is as well.

dont mince your words wannabe!

I was thinking about in the 2nd article where it is suggested counsellors told her or agreed with her decision to do this. A counsellor helps you make your own decsions. They dont tell you to do anything. They are just impartial

Shoite - I'm listening to her now. I cannot believe the 'sang froid' with which this woman is relaying her story.

She says that even the vicar was advising her that it wasn't 'her destiny' to look after Immie. FFS .

denial?

wow fantastic,to read these comments.
I could have been Imogen`s mum 20 years ago.
He was my first baby and I knew personally two women who had adopted profoundly disabled babies and both did an incredible job of bringing them up and loving them ( still do).I thought I could go on and have more nt children and that them none of my family would suffer.In the end I didn`t have the guts to go through with it.
I think dh would have just gone along with it,if I had given him up,glad possibly.The baby was just a thing,I didn`t love him,I hated him for been profoundly disabled and for not dying,and I was very very angry and raged against fate.Other mums of pmld babies were so thankful their babies had pulled through,and made me feel so freakish for having such negative thoughts.
20 years later,I`m really glad I didn`t give him up,even though dh`s health is shot.I got used to or over feeling so depressed over ds,and ds has enriched my Life,made my Life even.My younger daughter seems to have `roll with the punches` attutude to Life,and no-one is odd in her eyes.What a pity this poor woman and her boyfriend couldn`t hang in there and receive the right sort of support.As for the Vicar....!! What the f is that all about?
My dh is oxford educated and up his arse,but he adores our ds,maybe beardy would have to if given the right support.
I really hope this highlights the problems families have with coping with a child with severe disabilities.For me,I could have been Immie`s mum.Thank God I didn`t give my baby up.As for the mums who were glad their pmld babies pulled through,all 3 gave them up for adoption about 7 years later.Maybe this mum,who has been so searingly honest,would have been the one who kept her baby and did a cracking job of it.Thanks for all the comments,brilliant x

I do wonder whether she could have given Immy up so easily had she not been in hospital. ie how easy would it have been to actually hand the baby over as opposed to just not going to collect her?

I guess immy's stay in hospital would have given them a glimpse of their old life back and it was easier to just not go back to the way things would have been, iykwim?

I agree re the counsellor fio, very bad practice.

This article made me very sad.

Then I felt very angry.

Then sceptical.

Then sad again.

She didn't give away a child. She abandoned her baby. She hadn't even tried caring for her, but abandoned her in hospital. There was no Tania lined up, they hadn't met her and thought that she would do a better job than they would. They seemed to decide as soon as they realised Immie wasn't "normal" that they didn't want her any more.

I appreciate that the article has been heavily edited from a book and so we don't see the full story but the essence is that Immie wasn't part of their perfect lifestyle so she wasn't wanted. Which is terribly sad.

And I don't quite believe that the various people she quotes (i.e the vicar, the doctors, counsellor etc) said what they said to her. I imagine she has adapted their original quotes to fit her unsavoury actions. But then they can't come along and contradict her as it would go against their professionalism so she is in a win/win situation there!

At least Immie seems to be happy now with a mum that loves her and cares for her.

I agree with you sidge about leaving her in hospital.Yes I think that did make it easier.Also I think she had tried to love her but couldn`t get past the disability.
She didn`t completely abandon her as she has her to stay,which makes me think that with the right sort of support she could have done a good job of caring for her.

I sort of see what you're saying time4me, but I don't think she did try very hard to love her. She didn't give it long did she? And I wonder if even with support she would have cared for her, I just don't think having a disabled child was in her "family plan".

Well I've listened to the women's hour thing and am very

I don't get it.

She makes out that she was worn down by the care because Imogen screamed for the entire first year. But she only had her for 5 months. She did 'lots' of research before deciding to leave her in hospital. Yes a whole week's worth. She did it to save the relationship with her elder child - you can do that without abandoning a disabled child. Beardy is 'a loving father' whilst he was dumping Immie's stuff presumably. She would never be capable of forming relationships- except she has one with Tania (which she seems to need the professionals to confirm as a 'real' relationship). She kept on going on about a 'normal relationship', What does she think a normal mother-child relationship is? It's about touch and love and that deep bond not playing.

I don't understand why she's done the book. I can understand (especially after reading time4me's post) about the shock of being told your child is severely disabled (and to a certain extent we didn't get that because ds1 was assumed to be far less affected than he is- I never initially considered that he would need lifelong 24 hour care for example) but to then create this weird version of reality - which doesn't make sense then publically hold it up. That weird comment about 'symbolically' still being her parent. WTF?

She doesn't sound to me as if she's gone through some great journey as she talks about it as if it happened to someone else. Nothing of what she says makes any sense to me.

I think she's in total denial. Still. And time4me I think you're right that with the right support (or a different boyfriend/husband) she might have managed for longer.

She does that whole thing of treating people who look after profoundly disabled children as some sort of saints. Which doesn't really help change attitudes.

I do agree with you Sidge,but I still feel more sympathy than contempt for her,especially as Beardy gave her a cruel ultimatum.I wonder what they are really feeling and also what their girls will feel about them when they are grown up.

She seemed really surprised when the women's hour presenter said that beardy's actions would be seen as cruel by some (did she use the word cruel? something like that).

Love your thought provoking comments yurt but still feel convinced that this poor family needed the right support,not the bloody vicar who obviously didn`t have a clue.Someone who could help them grieve,and then move on and love their child.They still seem stuck and have not moved on,otherwise why did she write a painful account,and she sounds so detached.

Someone told me once that when she found out her baby was severely disabled it was like a bereavement, and that she'd had to grieve for the child she thought she was going to have in order to accept the child she now had.

Is it possible she just could never accept that this child was her's, because she couldn't accept the child she was supposed to have (the sparky child, like her dd1) had gone?

Agree absolutely with that time4me. I really think this book is a potential huge mistake for her as she doesn't sound like she's remotely come to terms with what happened, and instead the decision she made became others (like the blasted vicar) and the carer becomes someone saintly whilst she becomes not up to the job.

When I read this article it just struck me that the mother's attitude seemed to be something from 50 years ago when disability was hidden and disabled children were frequently given up for adoption or placed in care very early in life. I felt quite amazed that the events were recent.

It seems that Immie is loved and well cared for so I'm not sure that it should matter who does the caring but I do wonder if her mother will ever regret her actions.

I totally agree with you wannaBe,and also the consultant did not help,by saying such painful things like,well she isn`t going to be like dd1.What does he know,has he had a disabled child?Could he not have talked about a different kind of spark.I am looking round respite homes for adults now as my son is 20.I saw an elderly pmld man in a wheelchair.A carer said he is going to visit his mum in hospital today,and the way that old bloke sparkled is something I will never forget.BTW in my town there are 3 parents in their 90s caring for their severely learning disabled children. not cos its probably whats keeping them going!

I remember in Paul Bro's book which is a series of case studies taken from his work as a ??? clinical psychologist. he said he was caring for a young man who had been in a road accident and was severely brain damaged. He described how he thought this young man had nothing left. How he reacted violently to touch and how he thought it would have been better if he had died.

Then he saw the man with his mother and he was relaxed and cuddled up to her and looked totally at peace. And he could see the bond the two had and how they both got something out of it. And he realised he'd been guilty of judging the man;s life as not being worthy. And how he felt shamed for having thought like that.

Or something like that. I don\t have the book so I can't re-read. But there was something about these articles that reminded me of that piece of writing.

Paul Brok I mean

Ladidadi,yes she must be regretting her actions already,thats why she wants endorsement by writing a book and appearing on the radio.She would have made a good mother to this little girl,she relates to what Tania is doing.She got lost somewhere hence her bizarre reactions like chucking her breast pump away.Its as if a car crashed,just at that split second point in time,she could have been rescued.But there was no one there to catch her.

or beardy was standing in the way!

I agree that she's quite possibly trying to endorse her actions via the book. Biiiiig mistake surely?

Im feeling more sorry for her after talking to you. But she does come across as rather weak.

Then there was the whole brother died in similar circumstances type thing going on.

if she was already finding it hard, then the ultimatum would have just doubled that for her, it would still have been that life, only she would have been doing it on her own.

I don't think I could go ahead and have another child with a man that gave me such an ultimatum though.

in fact I'm not sure that I could have another child knowing that I'd given one up.

I do find that bit hard to comprehend.

It's horrifically sad all round. For Immie, for her, and for her other two dds.
Beardy should have been kicked into touch IMO.

I think you're right yurt, she probably is in denial. What happens the day she wakes up and regrets it (if she doesn't already)?

Agree wannabe. IMO with such an ultimatum, how could you ever have any love or respect in your relationship ever again?

Not only that, but how could you see someone in the same light after he'd talked about 'windows of opportunity' for 'helping' your child to die? Never mind the ultimatum, I'd have had my doubts before that.

Lol at 'beardy' though .

I don't feel sorry for Immie. I think she is with someone now who loves her. i can not feel sympathy for the woman though. I have read the whole thread and seen all the points of view. but still can't and I am not a hard person. but you are dealt cards in life and you deal with it.
wannabe you are right about greif. i didn't undersatnd about that untill I read a brilliant local book.