We're expecting our first child. He's already a father. His ex had c-sections.

I'd prefer to try a water birth and would like to see if I can manage without drugs. I'd like to feel I have actively helped to birth my baby. Of course I am worried sick about tearing, that my fanjo will be very loose and never the same again, I'm terribly afraid of a forceps or suction delivery but I really hope that all would go well without interference.

My dh and I have a great sex life, it's really important to both of us and I am very tight down there and would like it all to remain so. But I think it's a muscle and with exercise and time it will tighten up again and heal better than a surgical incision. (I don't even want to discuss inflammation of the wound, etc. I've chosen to go private and would have an excellent experienced surgeon.)

I just feel really pressured by my dh to have an elective cesarean. He says he doesn't want my fanjo to change, our sex life to become horrible and the risk of me becoming incontinent in bladder and rectum. (A colleague's wife had a 4th degree tear and took 2 years to heal due to several operations. The husband had nothing better to do than then to start sleeping with the 17 year old clerk.)

All these things whizz around my mind. I'm going nuts. Yes, it's my body but what if something goes wrong and I tear like this or dribble? I'm that dh has made his point so clear. I feel I'm being compared to ex-wife even though she ended up with a bad flab and keloid inside scarring.

I'm sorry for rambling on. I'm confused. I won't divorce my dh for it or anything. I know he's selfish, but name calling won't help me solve this. The baby is on its way. I just wondered if anyone has ever been in this situation and how they coped/handled it...

It's your body.

You birth how you want.

I'd hire a doula.

I wouldn't want someone who wasn't supported of how I chose to give birth around, tbh.

ditto expat. He's clearly ignorant in the matters of childbirth.

i thikn he is failing to see the bigger picture here

if teh security of your marriage depends on the tightness of your fanjo then i would be worried

the pregnancy itself puts a strain on your pelvic floor, so you still need to do your excercises

4th degree tears are very, very rare

a waterbirth is a great way to help keep your perineum intact as the water supports you.

it also helps things to stretch

an active birth is also good as allows you to move and lsiten to your body, thereby reducing the risk of a forceps or ventouse delivery

surgery is not an easy option, there are risks for you and the baby,. of course a v.b has risks too,but do not go into having a section just to preserve your fanjo

your DH needs to educate himself about the realities of pregnancy and birth.

Your body will be changed by pregnancy , your breasts, abdomen and perineal area aswell as your vagina . a section will preserve your vagina,. but at what cost to you? and your self esteem?

Did he marry your fanny or you? Did he marry for sex or for you?

What if you went incontinent because of illness or disease?

What if you had some type of illness that meant sex was out of a while?

What if the shoe were on teh other foot? Would you dump him?

As for a man who shags someone else because of his wife's health problems, well, I'd say I was better off without such a shallow git in my life and that she (the OW) is welcome to him.

Your husband is being plain selfish, lots of women who have natural births have fabulous sex lives hence many children!!
I am pro choice on labour/caesarean as I've had three of them, but pro mother's choice for mother's reasons not ill informed dh's thinking that the baby would stretch a woman's vagina so much that it woldn't retract. Your poo doesn't fall out of your bum just because you've had one before does it?
If his ex's fanjo was so great why isn't he with her?
Get some accurate information and baffle your dh with fact, besides there's a greater risk that you die and the baby has respiritory problems if delivered via c-section. Maybe you wouldn't feel like a good shag if you were dead???

i would nominate expat as teh Voice of Reason , second only to Aitch

Agree with expat. The doula is a very good idea.

Are you rich enough to pay for a c-section? I don't think you can have one to order...

Would your dh be prepared to have a medically unneccesary operation just to please you?


(Obviously not meaning that all elective c/s are medically unneccessary)

Yes, I'm really beginning to think about this obsession about a tight fanny. Since when is that the only way to have fun in bed???

Posie, you made me laugh.

I can't think of anything to say that doesn't involve calling your husband what he is.

Do not let him bully you into this. Is he going to tell the surgeon why he wants the section (or more likely make you make something up) or is there enough money to buy yourself a major operation?

My first baby was born by emergency section and I can't have anymore because of it.

Think about it.

what has your DH said will happen if you don;t agree and go for a waterbirth?

what lulu said!

Maybe he could book himself in for a penis enlargement operation just in case you end up being stretched by childbirth?

I have had two c-sections now - certainly not through choice.

It is a major operation - you can't lift the kettle for weeks - not to mention the added risks of surgery.

You should stand your ground on this one.

Is it possible that he's scared about things going wrong and is focusing all his anxiety on one thing, i.e. the possibility of change to your sex life? I agree he is sounding very selfish and certainly you SHOULD NOT feel pressured to do anything other than what is right for you and your body. He needs to get educated about all the different aspects of childbirth.

Also, has he not considered that having a small baby is going to change your sex life anyway!

I hope you both can find a way to communicate so that he understands that where your body is concerned, your needs come first

Yes, rachael, on private terms the doctors do as you tell them (IME). But he expressed concern that a VB was best (I mean it's nature right). And I guess he sensed I wanted to ask questions and wish something different for me but dh immediately moved to c-sec.

you need to speak to your doctor on your own about what is best for you and your baby.

you are his patient, not your husband.

i'd phone and ask for a phone consultation or an appointment for just you.

of course VB is best

there is no medical reason here why you should have a c.section

especially as you want to have a waterbirth !

best in this scenario .

does your DH understand that a c.section is major abdominal surgery?

so, if you go for a v.b what will he do? will he support your decision?

NotABanana, I'm sorry to hear about your experience.

Copper, I actually like the idea.

Lulu: He said it was my choice. Then silence. If anything goes wrong I guess he'll moan. I don't know.

His mum had 3 big boys and wanted a 4th. He never judged her.

hmm, so he has expressed a very, very strogn preference that overrides your wants dna needs and goes silent on you

c.s is not risk free. if you have one and someting does go wrong, you will blame him surely?

you need to be clear in your mind, what you want. and then how you will get it. if your DH cannot support you then hire a doula. or an independent midwife and have a homebirth in water !

Lulu, I think he will support. I think he's scared. More scared than I am.

In the 2nd c-section he saved his ex's life, they didn't give her enough adrenaline and her heart rate failed.

Maybe he will come 'round. I don't know.

Have started to go to ante-natal yoga and signed up for hypno birthing.

His ex has sniggered about women wanting a natural birth though saying same stuff about loose sleeves and things All this despite her nearly dying.

Then he needs to go to antenatal classes with you and to stop listening to the jealousy of his ex!

I had a straight forward vaginal birth and wouldn't have changed it for te world, it was an amasing experince, feeling her slither out, and i did need some stitches but I healed and was able to care for my new born so much better than if i had had c section. really go for your water birth, you will really regret it if you dont try to get the birth you want. I'd give birth again tomorrow

If he is scared, fine, but it doesn't give him the right to bully you or scare you with what he thinks might happen.

Expat, I take your advice and will contact my doctor to see if he can recommend a doula. There's one working with him, maybe I can book her. I'm nearly 5 months.

quite, mars. he needs to stop looking at this from his and his exes persepctive and from yours primarily.

my dh also wanted me to have a c-section but not for fanjo related reasons...he just didn't want to see me go through the pain..i didn't listen and had a vaginal delivery and now Im traumatized by childbirth and can't imagine ever doing it again..I had also planned a water birth and didnt get it- ended up with pethadine, gas n air and an epidural after I got stuck at 2 cm for hours and hours with a 9 pound baby.at the end of the day both options have pros and cons but your dh has to respect your decision. after my dh expressed his opinion and I dismissed it, he was 110 % behind me (to use Apprentice speak and I couldnt have done it without him. Hopefully your dh will get behind you no matter what you decide.

a doula can also help allay your husband's fears and help you determine what you want, including during the labour.

mars is a doula !

Hi Mumtobesoon!

Firstly, congratulations!

I've been in a reasonably similar situation - I've chosen to have an elective CS and actually go in tomorrow morning.

DH was fully supportive of this idea and, TBH, I think he wouldn't have been too keen for me to attempt natural childbirth. He's certainly more than keen for an El CS.

You are right; Going private will pretty much buy you the right (but expect to pay more for elective CS!)

BUT (and this is one helluva but!) I was also in favour of a CS. YOu aren't.

I would absolutely recommend a doula. I have one, even though I'm having an El CS and she has been a godsend. Just talking to me and being there to answer questions and go through the alternatives in a non judgmental way. I cannot recommend it highly enough.
YOu mention that he's been married before and his ex had C-sections.... so perhaps you might mention to him that they are not the great marriage saving devices he thinks they are!!!

I think a happy wife is a far more important ingredient to a happy sex life!

LOL at 'having nothing better to do that screw a 17YO' - I hope to GOD that wasn't his actual excuse!!!

EP, yours is a very very good experience re the help of your dh. That support is everything!

Hello YCB, oh I read your post with interest. I shall be keeping my fingers crossed for you tomorrow!! You got a doula despite C-sec? That's new to me.

I have read up like crazy about EL CS and EM CS, I have pestered people with questions. I would like to try and give birth naturally. In water if possible, with dh witnessing it and me having the strength to do it.

That colleague claimed he missed sex and got it from a young impressionable girl. I was disgusted when I heard of it. I guess if you have a partner like that you don't need enemies.

If that is what you want you absolutly should go for it

Thanks!

Yes, I have a doula and a C-section planned!

My doula is still coming with me tomorrow. She really has been worth her weight in gold and I would really recommend you look in to one (whereabouts are you?)

my DH would abolsutely definitely certainly not want to 'witness' the birth. Even with the CS, he'll be there if he can stay at 'the head end'!!

He's not great with stuff like that and, TBH, I wouldn't want him 'down there' IYSWIM

it does need to be your decision though... an el. CS is right for me and my DH... Has your DH given you the reasons he's so keen?

yes, sex life is one, but does he feel it's safer, less painful etc? My DH did have some other reasons - knowing the date, organising stuff with his other kids etc., these might be considerations your DH has too?

As for the colleague - <<<YCBS shakes head and wanders off>>>>

I'm in Central London.

DH thinks it's better for the body (no bladder, uterus problems later in life).

I'd like 3 or even 4 kids. (I know, I'll make my mind up once I have one, but that's my vision and having 3 or more c-sec's scare me.) He believes he's more in control and says that the unknown possible interventions in a VB are horrific. (Suction cups, episiotomy, forceps, etc.)

My doctor has hinted at trying to get a VB and doing a diagonal pre-emptive small cut to help baby, instead of going for a c-sec.

I think if it's right for you, it's great.

you might not even need an episiotomy! many women don;t nor do they tear. i didn;t for one.

also, during a c.s the bladder can be knicked, also scar tissue and adhesions can cause bladder and other issues , so surgery is not the easy answer, also multiple c.sections increase the risk of scar adhesions and internal issues, so he is kidding himself if he thinks it is going to be a no risk alternative

Dh is wrong, vb is better for body, you heal much better, much quicker, some of the outcomes for cs are pretty awful too

My perinum stayed in tact, i'd avoid an episiotomy if pos, tears often heal more quickly than surgical cuts, I go an internal tear, but it was stitched and healed, a bit unpleasent, but really not a biggy

I had 3rd degree tear and ventouse. certainly not pleasant but no apparent problems now eg with sex life. Why on earth would your sex life become horrible? Have the birth you want. Research it, take ownership of it or you will without doubt regret it for the rest of your life. Getting your dh on board is well out of my remit, his attitude on this issue is controlling and inconsiderate.

Having a csection increases your risk of a whole raft of complications in the next pregnancy.

The official NHS leaflet says that a cs makes you more likely to ... long list of stuff ... "have no more children".

I had one of those complications in my 2nd pg and ds1 was born prematurely. In my 3rd pg I had a worse cs-induced complication, spent months in hospital on the antenatal ward, lost 16 pints of blood giving birth (a cs under GA), and had a hysterectomy.

I have a 10 inch vertical scar now. Ds2 is 5 months old and we haven't had sex yet cos I can't bear the thought of dh touching the scar.

There are more ways than one to damage your sex life!

Actually, babies can put paid to your sex life rather thoroughly even when they don't cause any damage on the way out. Its a good job they're so cute.

How about you agree to a section if he has his penis cut to be better for you?

Walnut, how good to hear you got through the birth so well and healed.

Fruitful, I'm so very sorry to hear your story What a horrific story. I don't know what else to say. I hope you will heal well!!!

When I saw the consultant after ds's (tricky) birth, she said she wouldn't recommend a c section to anyone who wanted more than two children. I am no expert, but if you really do want up to four children then you need to think that through.

No cutting please. What about pumps for him when my fanjo falls to the floor? LOL.

It took 37 minutes for the surgeon to saw through my scar with my last section, she had to carefully cut away my bladder that was stuck to the underneath of the scar. I'm having my fourth in the autumn, holy shit!

Not sure or not if it is a good thing you are lol.

Your husband wants you to have major surgery for no good reason.

Have a vaginal delivery, and if there's any tears, perhaps he could request and extra stitch?

or request a designer vagina if he's so keen on surgery.

I'm sorry, but ....

OMG Posie, hope it goes better!! Will you then have had al 4 as CS? Sorry for snooping. I'm surprised it is possible nowadays.

I have to go but I'll come back later. I'm finding a bit of solace now in all your answer. Thanks for sharing your stories and experiences. I've never received so much insight before.

I planned a VB but ended up with a C section. As others have said it is not the easy option. As for those comments about "loose sleeves"...FFS

I am genuinely shocked by your DH. I've had 4 natural births and no complaints from DP.

He's just so bloody grateful when it happens

Mumtobesoon, if making sure that your fanjo remains tight is very important to you, then an elective is the only way to guarantee you that!
Chance are with a vb everything will go well and you won't tear badly, but I speak from experience: even with a minor tear your fanjo will feel different.

I have just had an elective (to protect my pelvic floor) and it was a great birth experience. Would never have a vb again! Yes, actively birthing your baby is fantastic, but it comes at a price (risking your sex life), so for me it's a no brainer.
Good luck and I hope your dh supports you whatever you decide to go for.

All four!! Two emergency.

Wow, Posie!

Seashell: Thanks for letting me know how it went. I will keep it in mind.

your vagina also changes with age. it loses elasticity as hormone levels drop with perimenopause and menopause.

regardless of whether you've given birth through it or not, it will change with age and it won't be like a 20-year-old's forever, just like the rest of the body.

Mumtobesoon, if there's anything you want to ask me about the elective please feel free. If you want I could email you my birthplan. Also you could have a look at
[www.electivecesarean.com]]

Dh says I am tighter now than I was before ds.

Pelvic floor exercises are the key.

I did lots of stretching before the birth and birthed in water, did not tear at all.

My guess is that, like some women who have had cs and aren't happy with it, has focussed on what could have happened to her vagina if she'd had a vb, and banged on about it. She probably scared him to death with horror stories.

I haven't done one, but several people have recommended hypnobirthing courses as a great way of addressing men's fears about cb. Maybe worth considering?

1- your fanjo will change with age, wether or not you have a natural birth or c sec. It will change down there and you will have looser skin.
2- if you don't do pelvic floor exercises, your v will get looser, wether or not you have a natural birth
3- plenty of women out there have stress incontinence after a c-section. THere are risks associated with the surgery which can cause fecal incontinence as well either temporary or permanent.
4- Had a discussion with others on this board some time ago and many women who had C sections couldn't have sex for a long time. I know it sounds daft, as baby came through the roof top, but I had too much pain in the vaginal area to have sex for ages after C sec. Don't ask me why, just did, and lots of others have experienced that as well.
5- your boobs will change, wether you bfeed or not. And they will go south wether you have children or not
6- because of hormones, after the baby you may not have the same sex drive as before, and that can take a long time to get back to what it was before.
7- if you can afford a private c section, you can afford reconstructive surgery in case you tear. Or he can pay for it.

I'm really not impressed by the level of ignorance men sometimes, they just haven't got a clue.

BP,
My libido has never wained, always pretty high especially in pg, poor dp!!!

same here babe, high libido during pregnancy is very common, it's afterwards that it changes. Don't want to scare you though

mumtobesoon - totally at your dh.
Ask him to get a fatter cock instead!
FWIW, I find sex even better since vaginal birth. Anyway, the pressure on your pelvic floor affects the muscles even without going through delivery.

That you should even be discussing it.

Does he think it best you don't breast feed in case they don't suit him perfectly afterwards?

Perhaps he would rather you didn't put on any weight when pregnant too.

Child birth needs to be approached with respect & with an open mind. It's not really about the dad at that particular stage of the game. It's made me cross, reading this.

Bloody hell.He sounds like a total twit.God help you if ever anything serious happens to you.

Dont underestimate the effects of pregnancy on your pelvic floor, no matter how the baby comes out in the end. Pelvic floor exercises will help enormously though.

I have had both types of delivery, and I dont think that there is much to recommend one method over another for the aspect you are worried about (obviously there are lot of other pros and cons!).

I recovered my normal body shape very quickly after my VB, but after the C sections my belly took much much longer to go down and I think the overhang will never go away.

BP, this is my fourth pregnancy and my last baby did not stop crying for eight months, that did help my libido subside for a couple of months. Otherwise it's go go gadget groovin'!!

He wants you to have surgery so your fanny stays tight? Yuk. He sounds disgusting. In fact, that view is one of the nastiest things I've ever read on MN. Sorry to be so blunt but I'm truly shocked.

Sorry, but your husband sounds like a prize arse for even suggesting you have an elective C section to keep your vag tight for him!

It has made me remember a obstetric registrar I used to work with. Whenever she was stitching up a tear after delivery and had some nob of a partner say 'stick a couple of extra ones in for me' she would reply 'so have you got a small dick then?'. That would usually shut them up.

Any obstetrician with any integrity would never agree to this anyway.

Gosh, how dare he?
I'm quite shocked.

emma What a great comeback.

Please don't jump all over the OP. She asked for advice.

I think quite a few men want thier wives to have El CS... As long as the woman is happy with it, then there is no problem.

The rpoblem here is that the OP isn't happy.

She doesn't need to hear that her DH is a nob / wanker / tosser.... she needs sensible advice about the pros and cons of an El CS...

I still recommend a doula (I'd recommend mine, personally, if you are in the South East) to provide independant, non-judgemental advice to most closely achieve the birthing experience the woman wants.

I don't know Serious. Sometimes women do need to be told that their husband's point of view is disgusting. She sounds caught up in something rather unpleasant to me. Tight fannies, feels compared with ex-wife.

she didn't ask for advice about elective csection.

she says she doesn't want one and he does because he wants her fanny to stay tight.

she says she feels pressured to have surgery she doesn't want.

anyone who does that to someone else is a fuckwit.

Gawd, I hope I don't bring up my daughters to go along with a husband's wishes to have unecessary major surgery because of his fuckwittage.

I'd feel I had failed them totally if they ever took up with someone like that, much less put up with it.

I have problems because I had to have an emergency section. Why put yourself through something you don't need too?

Im at him don't know what else to say really ..without calling him names!!

I think that elective sections should be easily available to any woman that wants one, just as one to one midwifery support and access to a birthing pool and/or supportive care during a homebirth should be available.
I think that you should make the choice that you want not that your dh wants. It's your body, not his.

fuckwittage........

Seriously, though, would the feeling as stong if the woman wanted a CS and her huby prefered a natural birth?

Or should a bloke just stay out of it?

And, if he should, should a woman expect his support through the labour / birthing experience (whatever kind) ?

The others here have given you so much words of wisdom regards to the birth issue, I will just focus on the fanjo.

I too had an extremely tight fanjo, to the point of penetrative sex being slightly painfull at the beginning of intercourse.

After my second child was born, I felt like a wide open tunnel. I kid you not. I could literally put my hand in, wave to my fallopian tubes, and feel nothing. I did lots of exercises. And with time, it has tightened up. (My son is nearly 3) Meanwhile, there are other positions to try which will give the impression of fanjo tighter than it really is. Do not let this put you off at all.

The point is, the birth is happening to her body, not his. If she wants the elective csection after coming to an informed decision, well, it's her body.

But that's not the case here.

She's feeling pressured because her ignoramous husband's chief concern is her postpartum minge.

I support my spouse in what he decides to do with his body even I don't agree with it - like get another tattoo.

Because he's my partner. It is his body and not mine.

It is pregnancy just as much as vaginal delivery that affects the pelvic floor.

Could you not have a private appointment with someone specialised in pelvic floor issues to help shed light on this? BUPA hospitals have specialists in this. You can have an appointment without a referral.

Firstly apols if I repeat what's already been said - I'm afraid I don't have time to read all the threads.

I'll deal with your husband's concerns first.

He is plainly wrong about the tight fanjo thing. He's never had a baby, so he's taken one example out of the billions of births that have happened on this planet and has extrapolated the most absurd 'rule' about birth that I've ever heard.
Basically he doesn't know what he's talking about. I had a 3rd degree tear, was sewn up a bit small (only on the outside lip - sorry for detail!) and am about to have a minor op to fix that. However, my fanjo has never been tighter. Even if you are one of the extremely unlucky 5% or so who have 3rd, let alone 4th degree tears, so long as you keep up pelvic floor lifts you'll be fine with regard to tightness. A little leakage may possibly occur occasionally but only if you don't do the lifts every week or so.

Lots of women on this site have said their fanjos were tighter than ever after having a baby, because giving birth forces you to get to know your body better than ever and gives you a determination to fix whatever's out of joint.

If you have a elective caesarean he had better be prepared take 6-8 weeks off work to be at your beck and call because it will be a HUGE problem for you to look after your newborn when your stomach muscles are trying to build themselves back again. Is he willing to do that?

Okay, now I'll get onto you.

Congratulations! You're about to do the most amazing and extraordinary thing you've ever done, and every day you'll keep on telling yourself what an amazing miracle you've produced! When your bambino/a starts smiling/ eating/ crawling/ talking/ walking/ making jokes (this will all happen within 18months, believe me!) you will cry with joy and amazement at what you've achieved.

Are you feeling unsure or anxious about anything apart from the husband/ fanjo issue? I was TERRIFIED of the idea of giving birth between the years of 16 - 32. When I was preggers I went to ante-natal yoga (if you can find classes run by a doula I highly recommend it as she'll most likely give you great instruction and confidence on everything you need to know about giving birth). I also bought a hypnobirthing CD (you can get it from the NCT), which made a huge difference. My attitude to birth was transformed.

I had a 2 day labour during which I took 2 paracetamols to 'take the edge off' the pain (hahahaha! some midwife's suggestion!). I used singing (low humming, so it vibrated in my womb) to counteract the pain, then got to hosp at 7cm dilated and had about half a canister of gas and air before it was time to push.

I had special complications which led to my tear - most women will not have this. Even so, I was so high on endorphins that when I was in surgery I was still singing!! If I, with my former terror of birth, could achieve all that, no woman should feel too afraid to go for it.

You are wise to consider a water birth - I'm sure you know all the reasons why that's a great choice. Also staying on your hands and knees/ suspended from ropes, etc, are all great positions to ensure that your body gives birth more effectively. If you end up on your bum (like I did) it's bad for baby (cuts off blood supply as major artery to womb passes alongside the pelvis) and means your muscles don't use gravity.

I also had the most amazing birth partner husband, who deserves a medal and made the whole experience incredibly positive for me.

Your husband is unlikely to change his views. Much as it would be beneficial for him (and you) to witness the birth, if I were you I would (1) get some info from a doula about how important the emotional atmosphere is to the birthing woman; (2) armed with this info, tell him that he has made you very anxious about giving birth and you are concerned that his presence may have a harmful impact on your labour. Ask him to consider whether he is willing to support your decisions about birth. Tell him that if he is not 100% for your wishes (and it has to be 100%) that you will not allow him into the birthing room at the most vulnerable and sensitive time of your life. Give him time to mull it over. Be prepared to have a positive, close, supportive friend on standby (preferably one who's had a natural birth). If you can't find such a friend I'd definitely go for a doula.

This is an essay!

I nearly died after a c section due to severe hemorrhage afterwards, had to be opened up again and was in HDU for 3 days unable to see my son. I had tubes and drains everywhere. It's not an easy option. I find your DH views awful tbh.

Surely it is his ignorance which is the problem?

The OP by coming on here will be able to educate him with the good advice and knowledge available.

I really, really hope the OP isn't feeling insecure and comparing herself/their relationship with his XW/Xrelationship.

His ignorance and her fear, not of how her body might be, but of disappointing her DH? Sorry Mumtobesoon, this is a terrible position for him to put you in.

I think you need to expand your knowledge of both and make your decision, will he support you in that?

Hi again, it's EssayWoman! Have just started a thread polling MN users about the state of their fanjos here

Should provide interesting reading and should hopefully prove to your husband that he needs to learn a thing or two.

Good luck! xxx

I've had a 3rd degree tear and had to have an operation after delivering DD2 and they did a good job and i did my pelvic floor exercises all through pregnancy and after.
And yes my fanjo can crack nuts!

I have the occasional leak and I had a CS. It's the weight of the baby on your bladder, not VB that gives you incontinence.

More Than Words by Extreme! (this from a jazz and world music fan. ahem)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kt7L4X4li_k

enjoy!

ahem. I posted that on the wrong thread!!

Hello you all, I'm back on. Thanks for all your comments and tips. I'm very well aware of the fact that my dh is selfish and single-minded. Like most men he'd like life to be 24h enjoyment and wants our relationship to stay exactly the same. Well, aving had kids before he should know that this is as likely as rain falling upwards.

I guess it can be summoned up in one verse: Girls grow into young women, become adults and mothers and mature. Their bodies go through different stages and most of them actually enjoy their forties or later much more than their teenage years.

Boys grow into young men but don't really evolve much after it if not led by a strong hand. If they're allowed to be iconsiderate and selfish then that's what they'll be.

I know my dh is lovely and my soul mate in every way BUT he doesn't seem to get his head around the fact that things might change. He also seems very afraid of the uncontrollable nature of babies, birth, etc. I think if I can find a way to alleviate his fears he might start to re-consider him pushing for a CS. He keeps saying it's best for the baby to be delivered by c-sec. No 'uncontrolled' risks of forceps, etc. Whereas I'm personally thinking that I'd like to try what my fanjo was actually created for, too. A birthing canal. I think with yoga and hypnobirthing I'll be better prepared, as well as stretching exercises. I'm sure it'll grow back to normal with exercises and

I have total respect for women that choose a CS because I don't think it's the easy way out. My doctor will let me have whatever I want but has voiced concerns. I think he sensed that I felt pushed into a corner.

I rang him yesterday to ask for a doula and it seems like she is available and I'll make contact with her now to see if she would be so kind and come to see us for coffee one afternoon to help dh understand that it doesn't have to go all wrong. I hope he'll come around.

I know marslady runs antenatal classes in central london and is a doula. her antenatal classes are www.thebabymoon.co.uk.

Having a Doula is aout support, I will support my clients in their decisions, I do not judge, I am there to inform, support, and empower.

I must go as I have a client having her cs this morning.

cx

Blimey.

I have read this thread and don't want to repeat some of the excellent advice and support you've had here. You sound as though you are preparing for the birth and for your baby in the best way - by getting information and being open-minded enough to discuss your options. I hope it all goes well for you.

I am at your dh, though, truly. The charitable part of me wonders whether he is scared of the whole thing - not least because he has had experience of what having children can do to a marriage - and is focussing on a part of it that he thinks he can control, ie making it clear he wants you to have a CS. If so, he needs to talk to someone else about his concerns and not overload you with them.

However, if he really is as shallow as your OP implies, then you need to distance yourself from him and concentrate on the child you are having, not the one you married. I am sure many men worry about fanjo maintenance. My mother was a midwife in the 70s and told me that when they were stitching woman up they would often create greater tightness in the process by adding what they called 'the husband stitch'. But a man who lets his pregnant wife feel that that is his main concern is not worth airspace.

For all the excellent advice on here I am truly grateful. None of my close friends had kids yet and asking near strangers on their birth experiences and feelings about their bodies and mental preparations is not really a done thing. MN permits me to ask what I daren't in real life.

I'm searching for a way to win my dh over and stop him scaring me with horror stories of his ex and some of her nasty comments which I believe where made out of fear rather than spitefulness. I mean the woman nearly died in an EM CS

I feel pressured by him conjuring images of what can go wrong in a VB and the glorification of a CS which is in fact major surgery and healing depends on the individual's ability to recover.

at the 'husband stitch'
I think there's so much more to sex than tightness. And I think the vag is a muscle that will recover. My Dad's just had prostate cancer surgery and dribbles and is effectively not able to have an erection but my Mum let me know that there are ways 'around it' and she's a happy lady

Thanks for the link hertsnessex!! Really appreciate this!

mumtobesoon - I don't even think my dh has noticed a difference since I've had two babies! And despite two vaginal births and now pregnant again, I've never had any 'dribbling'. I have always been very strict with pelvic floor exercises, and I was also lucky enough to see a specialised physio therapist after both births who helped.

I thought this was a wind up when I first read it but if your dh really does feel this way, I think it would help him to talk to a doula or midwife. Even the Obs if you have one. He sounds frightened more than anything else and seems to have pinned his hopes on the CS because, in his mind, it's predictable and controllable. I can understand that fear actually. I think if you are that sort of person by nature, childbirth is a huge head screw - I remember thinking 'but HOW will I manage if I don't know how long labour will be' etc. It's the fear of the unknown and not being in control.

Perhaps with a doula involved, he will be able to talk about his fears and will feel better having someone around who knows what's going on. I wouldn't write off your water birth just yet but I think your dh might need a fair amount of support to get to that decision (and his ex's scare stories won't be helping!).

I wish it was a wind up fox, sadly it's a repetitive issue with dh who thinks a CS is medically safer and has the effect of virtually allowing me a baby without any change in my girl's body. Well, I think it's a rite of passage to have a child and what comes with it and age and all: everything slightly going south and a more mature nature.

He focuses very much on the tight fanjo thing because it brings both of us pleasure but I believe I can regain that by exercise and the school of thought is that even if you ave an EL CS your pelvic floor, bladder, tum, etc. are weakened and you need to rest and retrain. You might not tear down below but what about repeatedly having kids in short distances through CS. After the 3rd they'll have to cut through lots of scar tissue and I'm worried about that.

After reading all messages a doula is necessary in my mind to speak to him as much as to me. My doctor has one working closely with him and I inquired after meeting her.

Mostly, I'd like to say that my dh is normally lovely and caring, I more and more think it's a control issue after listening between the lines and hearing your stories. I just feel pressured to make the 'right' decision. In his eyes.

He has made noises about coming to hypnobirthing with me though. Do you think that will help him?

I don't know what hypnobirthing is but yes, I agree about him needing to talk about it if that's what happens at these things. It feels like he's pressurising you so that he can go 'phew, don't need to worry about that now' iyswim. His ex may have put the wind up him too about this issue and it's stuck in his head.

(or something like 'everything else changed with my ex after we had the babies but at least the sex was still ok' type thinking).

You obviously love him, so give him a chance with the doula to air his fears and see what happens.

mumtobesoon - I have to say, you are being incredibly mature about this - I'm not sure if I would stay so reasonable if I were in the same position.

It brings to mind my marriage vows: in sickness and in health.

Try and get the stats for your hospital, some men respond better to actual facts and it may be that fear of the unknown is the real problem here, if he has been through c-sections before (that's my charitable approach!)

There does seem to be something missing here though. Up to when you have a baby, sex can often be the key concern. After the baby though the family changes in so many ways, and a woman's body is often just part of that. A fear of change could very well bring rocky times for you all.

Yes there's a chance you will stretch for a bit- I bet I have, I have four! All VB, no interventions. Can't say my DH is any less keen on sex though. It's supposed to involve a maturity thing- you might go from being ultimate sex kitten (for a few weeks anyway), at the same time there should be a new awareness and respect for the woman that birthed his child, and the body that enabled her to do so. Well, that's how my DH says he seees it anyway.

having C-S didn't save his first marriage did it? A marriage needs to be about so much more, part of which is the ability to prioritise your needs at this stage and then adapt the marriage if there are any potential problemns.

Oh and his colleague sounds like a prat! Assuming you haven't maied a prat, don't take that experience into the equation at all.

Strikes me you maybe should have discussed this issue BEFORE you decided to become pregnant.

He doesn't strike me as the type to take notice of a professional with statistics.

re your (correct) theory that the vagina is a muscle and will regain it's strength etc...wuold it be helful to point out to him Paula Ratcliffe's success sicne becoming a mother? Or other notable athlestes who have regained all-over top muscular strength and peak fitness - often surpassing thier previous performance? Your fanjo and stomach muscles will do the same, give a bit of attention and tlc and absence of the very rarer bad luck.

Omfg! He wants you to have major surgery so that his sex life is not affected???? What are you, his blow-up doll? Tell him to grow up. He sounds like a t*sser frankly.

Sorry, I flipped out before the bit where you said you didn't want any name calling.

Well I don't know what sort of circles you move in Blusky, but I don't know of anyone who discussed prospective fanjo strengths before deciding to have children. As everyone said on here, it's not the most important part of becoming parents, after all.