Okay, - Have just got back from a feedback session where I've been through my notes of my birth!

It would appear that my contractions were never longer than 30 seconds long. Could this be because I was soo terrified, because I was fighting them, or just because that's the way it is sometimes?

I got from 3 cm to 10 in 4.5 hours like that, with them every 3-4 minutes!!

Also, - although I lost 750ml of blood, there was an entry two days later that states on reflection that it may have been an underestimation. Is this a lot?

Thanks to anyone that has any answers!!

i lost 200ml when i had dd, 12 days ago.

my cx were longer than 30 secs too; i went from 3cm to 9cm in 2.5hrs, i htink its all individual tbh.

Thanks Scorpio! Hows the bf going?

Thought cx were supposed to be a minute long!

But then again, - thought lots of things that truly weren't reflected in the birth that I had!

Like to analyse though......a version of OCD perhaps!!

oh i loved reading back my notes i had a homebirth so i got to look at everything they wrote! BF going really well

Thinking of a hb this time, but mw has scared me by saying they only carry 1 or 2 canisters of g&a, each lasting 20-30 mins!!! WTF???

What did you do??

mine carry 3 each, so 6 canisters, and if you need more they store it at their office which is only 2 mins from my house. i used 2 canisters, that was about an hour and half serious use

Perhaps if you give me the address of their office I can break in and put them into storage at mine!!??

My contractions were about 2.5 mins long and on top of each other for the final 4hrs.

How do you go about getting a feedback session? Do you think it could help me 'close the book' on it? 1yr on and I still have flashbacks.

Phone the unit where you give birth. I think there are rules now about them having to provide a service to women who ask (but not entirely sure about it). You have to be quite firm and not be fobbed off.

Insist that you have gaps in your memory, and aren't sure what happened or why things happened and you want to go through your notes/experience to help you move forward.

Be prepared for your notes not to reflect your memory exactly, which can be a bit upsetting i.e. if you find out that it has been recorded that your cx were only 45 seconds long every 5 mins and that you were coping well, when in fact you were scared out of your wits!!

Tis emotionally draining!!

It HAS helped me though!

Thank-you.

I don't understand bits of what happened at all and I need some closure because I'm terrified of ever getting pg again.

Glad it helped you.

It took me a while to arrange it tbh, because although I desperately wanted to go through it, I also couldn't bear the idea of going through it again iykwim!!

But it WAS helpful, even though I was cross that somethings that I felt really should have been put in my notes weren't!!

Have phoned up. A coordinator is ringing back. Terrified to re-live it but I must. I'm going to sob like a baby.

Oh good luck ShowOfHands! I really hope it helps you!

I was in tears a few times btw!

most of mine with DS3 were about 30 seconds long, with the same distance apart from each other apart. Went from 3cm to 10cm in 2 1/2hrs

woah FAQ!!! do 30s ones hurt more or less than 2min ones???

LOL, - probably a stupid stupid question, - but am always looking for reasons why I didn't cope at all with the pain!

I don't know - I had CS with DS1, and I don't know how long the contractions were apart with DS2 (was induced), but they were bloody sore.

Didn't have much chance of "respite" in DS3's labour, was pretty fast and furious, 17 minutes of pushing and he was here

actually you know what I'd never worked out how long it took me to get from 3-10cm before. "officialy" it was 5hrs of first stage, because I'd started struggling with the contractions at 11am. But they examined me in the hospital at 1.30 and I was "almost" 3cm, was ready to push at 4pm.....

(at how quickly I progressed LOL)

Starlight, I found the problem with my contractions were that they didn't start off at a certain level, build up and tail off each time as I had expected. For the whole 2 minutes they were the same intensity, same level of pain, just hit WHAM and stayed like that till abruptly stopping again. I think in my case the level of pain may also have been to do with the fact that my waters broke before labour started so the whole process was without cushioning. I found that exhausting. That and the pushing for 5hrs with no baby at the end of it and no actual urge to push in the first place.

You can have a feedback session or have a copy of your notes (which you pay for) but they make very interesting reading. 30 second contractions obviously did the job in your case! 500ml of blood is classed as a post partum haemorrhage but some people cope better with this than others depending on their state of health etc. The normal blood loss is about 200ml. However, it is almost impossible to accurately assess how much blood has been lost for obvious reasons (soaked into bed, watered down with amniotic fluid etc).

That's interesting ShowOfHands, - sounds like my experience, but with much shorter contractions. My waters broke and BAM painful contractions, but every 3 mins although felt a lot more frequent!!

No urge to push, - pushed for 3 hours before doctor came and did something he shouldn't have, - which worked by the way

Thanks reikizen! Are you a midwife?

500ml is not usually classed as a pph anymore unless the woman is symptomatic, of course lots of women are symptomatic to some extent with that amount of blood loss. There is research to show that midwives estimate blood loss fairly accurately if it is 500ml or less but that when there is more it is often underestimated sometimes by as much as half so you have to go by how the mum is and what sort of state she is in in the days after the birth.

Starlight I only used one canister of g & a with my homebirth. Initially after every contraction I was asking the mw's if there was enough, but I decided that they might have been getting a bit fed up of me so tried to keep my trap shut. They can last a few hours if you use them sparingly, but only last twenty minutes if you are using them constantly. It is also less effective if you are using it all of the time, so it would be best to try and hold off a bit anyway.

As for contractions being only 30 seconds long, that could be why it took a long time to get him out. Were you going for a long time? If a woman is tired her contractions are going to be less effective. You may well have longer contractions this time around!!

Starlight, you do sound like me. I just want somebody to categorically tell me why snd I'll move on.

Why did dd get stuck?
Why didn't I have an urge to push?

And... will it happen again?

I think waters breaking first started a chain of events. Baby forced into the wrong position, head not presenting properly (ventouse scars by her right ear- surely that's not right?) and hence no urge to push as body knew it wasn't possible.

Yes, I was pushing for nearly three hours! By that time the contractions were only 15 seconds long, - I was on my back and had no urge to push.

Baby was got out with without warning using fundal pressure which was truly terrifying. It took me a long time and a lot of research to find out that that is what was done to me.

It didn't appear in my notes , what did appear was that the doctor was called and called and called and 45 mins later he arrived. His arrival was recorded, and 3 mins later the head was born, - with no reference to what actually happened or that he did anything.

So according to my notes, the doctor 'appearing' at the door got the baby out!!!

Apparently he was a student doctor too, that came unusually unaccompanied!

Still trying to make sense of it all!

Oh a magic doctor according to your notes. Appears in doorway, conjures head.

Fundal pressure, honestly only ever heard of that happening in America and some years ago. Shocked it happens here. And no warning? They did at least warn me they were about to perform a cs. Sounds frightening for you. I am sorry.

LOL: Does look suspicious in my notes at least!!

Yes frightening and truly upsetting that hospital deny it happened.

Was told that I must have been mistaken and he perhaps just rubbed my tummy to rub up a contraction!

I'm sorry but twas no mistaking THAT!

I've got evidence on MN (hehe) of the early days when I was on here describing in detail what happened and asking what on earth twas all about. That was fairly close to the birth so memory wouldn't have been impaired.

Also, - my DH witnessed it!!

The only reason I'm not persuing it is because I am of the impression that they are doind an 'unofficial' investigation. They told me that they would ask the midwife but it was unlikely she would remember as it was such a long time ago, -= however, from what I do know about it, it is a rare thing to see so I'm sure she WOULD remember!!

Have they rung you back yet ShowOfHands?

Just had the phonecall Starlight. They're sending me a photocopy of my notes to read in advance and then booking me in to see the consultant (ooh-er). She also outlined the procedure for what to do if I disagree with the contents. That bit didn't exactly fill me with confidence.

DH got home from work last night at 11pm and I babbled at him about the procedure and added in 'a virtual person on t'puter also had a long second stage and contractions that didn't peak and her waters broke at the beginning and no urge to push and she's also been to the hospital for feedback'. His eyes started to glaze over at 'I phoned the hospital today...' and he completely switched off at 'a woman on Mumsnet'. I think he feels I should have dealt with this by now. He's very supportive but he's said more than once that it's probably easier to just 'not think about it'.

Let's hope it helps but I'm not getting too excited.

Er no....... it sounds like they're on the defensive already!!!

However, - do try to be realistic. I'm assuming you gave birth on the NHS!? And if that is the case you 'probably' didn't get the treatment you ought to have. This is not right, - but unfortunately pretty normal.

I expect there will be lots of things you see in your notes where you think 'why didn't they do this, - or that?' Try to focus on the important things to ask rather than the little details.

I hope you will find things in your notes that help you. Despite the whole fundal pressure thing (how did you know about that btw? I'd never heard of it!), I could see quite clearly in my notes that they were trying really hard to get me my epidural.

LOL at your DH!! Mine's the same!

I'm always saying 'some woman on the internet said......' which must drive him made, because he's an academic and everything has to be referenced and peer reviewed!

I read about fundal pressure in a book about birth practices in the US. You know, bit of light reading whilst pregnant.

It was the NHS. Everything was fine until I transferred to hospital. I was having a home waterbirth and all was well. The midwives explained everything, involved us in the decisions and followed my lead. Then I got to hospital after a 26hr labour and 5hrs of pushing and it was so different. They didn't talk to me, they talked to dh about what was happening to me, the consultant who came to see me gave me an internal (both hands inside me, tmi sorry) mid-contraction and tutted at the community midwife who accompanied me when she said 'could you not wait a minute?'. He made a rude comment about homebirths and I snapped at him and he started telling other members of staff I was a 'bit hostile' and needed a 'good dose of pethidine'. I was tearful, sad, scared, concerned and wanted my mum and I didn't know what was happening. The cs wasn't discussed, I was told 'the papers were being drawn up'. I felt so out of control and just wanted to know what was happening to the baby and why she wasn't coming.

Sorry, I know you didn't ask for my life story!

Sounds very scary ShowOfHands, - tbh I quite surprised you were a 'bit' hostile, - but you're so vulnerable in those types of situation aren't you!

I felt like I was being chased around the room with a pethedine needle too, - coz I was distressed. Tis easier for them to stick drugs in you than work with you and talk to you.

Are you going to see the actual consultant that dealt with you?

Yes. I may not be responsible for my actions on meeting him. I've requested a midwife be there too which PALS suggested might help as they have a 'different approach and attitude'.

I think mid-sentence I may stick a knitting needle up his nose and ignore everything he's saying whilst tutting and disregarding his protests.

I did meet him the day after the cs (he discharged me) and he seemed nicer. Perhaps he was just stressed.

I think you're very brave. I don't know about you, but it took me 17 months to bring myself to do it, - and I didn't have to go through with seeing the doctor or midwife that delivered DS.

The doctor would have been fine, - I would have just punched him on the nose, - but the mw, from what I can understand was nice but just a bit inexperienced (which is no excuse I know) and did work hard on the day. I suspect she would be devestated to hear my view of how it all went.

Not brave at all. It's taken me 12 months and I know I have to do it or dd will never have a sibling and I want at least 5.

Er, who said that?

Shall I stick the other needle up the other nostril for you?

ShowOfHands: I'm expecting in September. I'm hiring a doula and supplying knitting needles!

It took me an unexpected pregnancy and subsequent miscarriage for me to understand that giving life is a miracle that cannot be overshadowed by a horrendous birth experience.

Had I not gone through that I'm not sure where I would be now.

Going to a feedback session was part of trying to put the fear and memory of the first birth behind me. Not there yet, - but can honestly say am happier!

Do you just ring the hospital where delivered and ask for your maternity notes? I have always wanted to read mine, curiousity more than aything tramatic like you both.
with both my pregnancies i had a retained placenta, just wanted to re-cap that third stage to see if i can do anything differently when/if i have a third child.
Also my friend is now training to be a midwife so would like to go over them with her and see if she has any recommendations for next time

You can ring the health records department direct or if you ring their PALS department they'll get the appropriate person to contact you. They will then send you a form to fill in and send back requesting a copy of your notes.

starlight, re: 2 cans G&A. my HB midwife only had this and gave me same warning. when they say on ly lasts xx minutes, that is if you plug in the mouth piece and breathe continuosly...as that makes me so stoned i can;'t function i just had 2-4 sucks as contraction started and peaked as needed. only used half a can in 4 hours! hope this experience helps

and i think 500 ml is considered a post partum haemorraghe?

Merryberry: I got through 4 of the large cans with my last birth, - and this was in 5 hours. I play the flute and swim so know how to breathe good!

I never ever felt woozy, lightheaded or anything, - and tbh, didn't feel any pain relief either, - but something about it was comforting and want to be able to use as much as I need!

p.s. NO WONDER I've never been able to understand people who say that a c/section isn't the easy option as you can't do much before 6 weeks!! I could hardly walk, and only felt vaguely human, - but still tender, at 8 weeks!!

Sirry, - Bin away for a bit!!!

Doh - 'sorry'!