I found an eyelash in my tin of Heinz Nurture the other day.

Sorry went into mega rant before getting to the point. Basically, cereal prices increase, oil prices increase..therefore cows eat cereal, milk prices increase, transport costs increase...your food prices increases.

Cereal prices have gone up on a worldwide basis due to a combination of increased production of biofuels, droughts and increased consumption of cereals in china and asia, if those are not the real real reasons then some spectulators are making a fast buck aswell off those assumptions.

Whereas supermarkets can keep other food products low and cut their profit margins to keep people coming through the door, they KNOW that they don't need to because YOU ARE A CAPTIVE AUDIENCE the only issue for them is concern about switching brands.

This is my main concern about formula companies, they don't care about you struggling to afford this shite, they don't care about your babies digestion, they don't care there have been copious amounts of research saying that formula feeding is detrimental to babies health. ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS THEIR PROFITS.

Cant believe these companies, been into sainsburys and Asda and both these now selling Hipp organic at almost £1 dearer. think i agree wiv jiffybaby "big fat profits and bonuses" to hell with us sufferin families out there.
I currently have 3 tins of good old farleys left and was planning to give hipp a go, but by the time I do it that will be the same price as the rest of em.
Anyway my boycott is gong well, not bought ANYTHING Heinz at all. We all need to keep it up!!!

Im still annoyed about this!
Ive told all my friends and family about it alot of them wont be buying heinz products - that'll teach em!
Why couldnt they have kept the farleys and also brought out the nurture so there was an option for ppl on low incomes or just ppl that were getting along perfectly fine with the farleys.

[Hmm] , after reading most posts, what happened to "Bond"? i think that she WAS an "inside job" and has scarpered cos she's been rumbled!!! lol ... anyhoo, i too have emailed Heinz many times regarding Farleys and have also received....erm.... NO REPLY! They are obviously not too bothered about the consumers feelings or the credit cruch, and how a majority of us all now are cutting back because everything is going up apart from our wages, so to add £3 or more onto a jazzed up tin it shows they are just more worried about lining their own pockets with big fat profits and bonuses.

If anyone is trying to find some, our local Lidl has MASSES of Farley's first and second milk in still - might be worth looking if you've got a Lidl locally?

Delighted to say that have managed NOT TO BUY ANY HEINZ products, at all, for the whole of this month ...nearly slipped up over the chicken soup but hubby reminded me & put the other, well known, condensed variety in trolley instead, lol!!!!
I have every intention of boycotting heinz for ever now - my boys are still not right, they went from contented, happy twins to being two nightmares at feed time & I only have heinz to blame, I could happily harm people for this!
Hope some more of you are joining me in the boycott - would be good to get a list of names going, just to send to the muppetts at heinz, so they can see that yes, consumers do STILL have a voice!

I am fuming about this and im glad to see i'm not alone! I was under the impression they were just going to change the name. I was expecting a price increas of 50p or so but it has almost doubled in price. We buy our milk from Asda's and a tin of Farleys was £4.87 it now costs £8.99 for Nurture.
I wrote a letter to heinz saying how disappointed we felt about the increase in the cost just for changing the name and mention their slogan "committed to low prices' and how they clearly aren't committed at all, and we got a snotty letter back from them stating that they have also changed the ingrediants that's why it has increased in price. I thought they were meant to be 'experts' in infant nutrition so surely they realise that this can cause stamach upsets and constipation.
We simply could not afford this increase as we are a young family living on a very strict budget especially with the increase in fuel, food and gas. It would have cost us an extra £18 per month which we dont have. We switched to SMA but it made him sickly then we tried c&g and this gave him a rash and he was even more sick.
We are stuck now? has anyone got any suggestions to any other milks?
I certainly wont be buying anymore heinz products. Please lets all stick together and boycott their products - Hit them were it hurts.
Surely there is a food standard agency for infant milk that we can write to, to complain? This shouldnt be allowed.

What's the normal price for Hipp Organic?
I'm sure it was under £5 per tub when this thread started, but also sure in Asda last night that it had gone up to £5.50!

Co-incidence?

If Heinz wasn't constipating a baby, then the Nurture is giving them runny poos, I feel pretty sure that the reason for this is the modified vegetable oil (Betapol) they have added to it that is doing so.

Surely if you added a tablespoon of cooking oil to your 3 meals a day you would find that your bowels also loosened up. And babies more than 3 bottles of formula a day. This is a rough analogy but there you go.

Heinz is charging you nearly £8 for the luxury of giving your baby diarrhea.

Becka - funny that. I filled my car up with petrol, the next day the supermarkets cut the price! 2 weeks later, I still don't need to fill up lol.

Anyhoo back to topic just wanted to say that if anyone lives in Basildon or there around, the Lidl in Laindon (opposite the shopping centre0 as loads of Farley's - the purple tubs and the blue ones, I think they were £4.64 or thereabouts. Sorry can't get some as I was visiting my mum at the time and I am now back home in Teesside. It would be worth checking local Lidl stores, as I'm sure thatcan't be the only one to have them!
HTH

The extra ingredients do not suit everyone, my Son has been on Farleys for 20 months (hates cows milk) and when the milk changed I assumed it was just been re packaged but after 2 days on Nurture milk he developed constant runny poo, needing nappy changes every 30 mins to an hour, this obviously distressed him (and us. After HV telling us we should not change milk unless absolutely necessary then the manufacturers do this. Have found some old Heinz in Lidl and stocked up for a bit but do not know what to do in future when I run out, hope he will just switch to cow's milk but not interested at moment.

Wheres Bond.....fight fight fight

Has anyone else noticed that ready made cartons of milk have come down in price? I don't know if this is because people have started buying them less with the credit crunch and all that but they used to be 52/54p per carton (200mls) in tesco and boots and now are circa 42p. I'm a bit annoyed as have been feeding DD all year on cartons and just switched to cows mile just as the prices have gone down!!!

hi ladies, this is my first post as i did not know about this site until i was looking for info on this new heinz product as i was disgusted to find they put the price up from £4.98 to £7.99 in my local morrisons.

I was so upset about it refused to buy and my 9mth old is now doing brill on good old cows milk! (well if im going to change it may as well be to that)

I also sent an email to heinz explaining my concerns, and below is what they emailed back to me......

Dear Ms Whetton

Heinz Nurture is a completely new range of infant formulae with new formulations and new packaging. The recommended retail price for Heinz Nurture is £7.99 (for the standard range) and £8.99 (for the specialist products). This is an increase vs. the Farley's product range, for which the recommended retail price was £5.99.

This increase reflects the changes we have made to the formulation with the inclusion of different and more expensive ingredients such as prebiotics and a different LCP oil blend.

Our packaging has also changed - we have added a scraper bar to help parents easily level off the milk powder in each scoop, and a more hygienic storage for the scoop which can now be stored out of the powder under the cap lid.

We have also extended our infant milk range with a product for babies with sensitive tummies, called Nurture Gentle. This will help ease some of the digestive problems that babies can experience such as colic, bloating and wind."

Yours sincerely
Elaine Roby
Consumer Care Co-ordinator

May i just say, i did fine using a knife to scrape my scoop, i did fine putting the scoop back inside the tub and most of all my son did fine drinking the old milk!

Its soooo confusing? I used farleys for almost 3 months now. and are unsure what to use now. You get told 'dont change the milk unless its absoloutly necessary' by the HV. I've been asking for advice from them for ages with ref to my little's ones constipation. But got told to hang in there dont change the milk and keep doing baby massage. Now i have to change the milk as i'm on my last can of farleys and Heinz nuture is not the same blend as farleys. Although they said it was just repackaging. no mention of re-pricing 'cant imagine why!!!!'

simpson - standard email - i got the same, word for word.

Ive switched DS to Hipp Organic (follow on) and he is taking less milk, but thats a good thing! (he is nearly 8mnths and was still on 5-6 8oz bottles a day with farleys hungry baby milk)

He is thriving, eating solids better, poo-ing better and generally happier.

Wish i had started on that in the first place!

Plus another thing i love about Hipp Organic, the packaging is just a cardboard box (that can be recycled) and the shiny tear open resealable bags. Much less waste!

Just a little advice,

i changed my little girl over from Heinz to Hipp Organic milk (priced £4.65 i Asda) and she has been fine, if not better then on Heinz. i think the formula change really messed with her tummy but the hipp seems a lot easier for her to digest, and cheap too

I am very grateful to find that I am not the only Mum who has had problems with the change in the formula - I thought it was me as a 1st time Mum being silly, but now I know its the change in the fomula - thanks for that

@ Iorek....yes, it does sound a bit spooky, doesn't it?!

Wonder where Bond is now?

Yes. Strangely enough, heard just such a load of crap from thenameisbond on this thread.

Has anyone had a response from Heinz from Naetha's link. I complained about price hike etc and boycotting products and got standard email back from them. Surely If people are threatening to boycott they should be a bit more concerned than the email I got.

I quote

"Dear XXX Heinz Nuture is a completely new range of infant formulae with new formulations & new packaging. The RRP for Heinz Nuture is £7.99 (for the standard range) and £8.99 (for the specialist products). This is an increase of vs. the Farleys product range for which the recommended retail price was £5.99.
This increase reflects the changes we have made to the formulation with the inclusion of different & more expensive ingredients such as prebiotics and a different LCP oil blend.
Our packaging has also changed - we have added a scraper bar to help parents easily level off milk powder in each scoop and a more hygienic storage for the scoop which can be stored out of the powder under the cap lid.
We have also extended our infant milk range with a product for babies for sensitive tummies called Nuture Gentle. This will ease some of the digestive problems that babies can experience such as colic, bloating and wind"

What a load of crap, have you ever heard such rubbish!!!

oops meant to start a new thread. sorry.

yes, yes, the daily mail but has this article been linked to before?

that is HIPP in all essence isn't it as most additives aren't organic so not in their milk, same with NannyCare.

i owuld prefer 'n0-frills' formula if i had to., just a basic, no added probiotics etc formula would be good.

as long as it contained all the nutriants required, then it wouldnt be an issue

tiktok - that's a fascinating question.

I remember having this discussion on a different board.

The vast majority of adults in the UK have been fed in infancy on what today would be described as a 'no frills' formula.

On that score - why wouldn't there be people who would be willing to buy this product now for their babies (on the strength of the argument - 'this is what I was fed on and it hasn't done me any harm', something I've often heard said in relation to formula).

Is there a market for a 'Basics' infant formula? Selling at £2 a pack? Permanently? Or does the fact that all brands (except one) sell at prices within 50p or £1 of one another mean that customers would think it was poor quality? They would see no expensive promotion of this formula, which would allow prices to be kept low. Advertising seems to reassure consumers that the product they have bought is 'ok' - totally spurious, of course, as the product is the product, whether or not it is advertised, obviously...

tiktok you are EXACTLY right about the prices. When I used to live in somerset, C&G had a factory in the city I lived - my brother worked at that factory. He could purchase for me, 6 tins of C&G formula for £20 & I am talking just 6 years ago!!!! The money they are making from formula is ENORMOUS & it really is greed, there is no other word for it. Yes, I breast fed all 4 of mine, some longer than others but if you choose not to - or CAN'T - you really are held at gunpoint with these artificially high prices. I fully intend to boycott HEINZ products for ever - not just the baby related items. These large companies MUST be made to realise that WE, the CONSUMERS do have the POWER!

camousean, you are right. Formula is a product with a great deal of marketing - advertising, promotion, teams of reps, 'carelines' - and this cost is passed on to the consumer. The actual product cannot be hugely expensive to make, if you compare it with ordinary powdered milk even if you add a generous couple of quid on for the prebiotics and what not. But ordinary powdered milk is not marketed in the same way.

Manufacturers can charge more or less what they want - see the Heinze Nurture debacle.

The fairer way of costing formula would be to have permanent low prices across all brands.

But these high prices just aren't right for us on a low budget and unable to bf!

thanks tiktok...this is all going in my little black book

Daisy, that's part of the story only.

It's because a temporary discount gives a false notion of the cost of formula feeding. For mothers on a tight budget this (it is thought) might have the effect of encouraging formula feeding, then two weeks later they find they cannot afford to stick with formula and they might use something less suitable instead (or dilute the formula to make it go further).

In reality, a few pence off in the UK is probably not going to have this effect, but the £3-£4 extra that someone might end up paying (after this Farleys debacle) could make a difference to someone's budget and affect the rest of their shopping basket.

Permanent low prices are legal, BTW.

it's about not being allowed, by law, to promote infant milks. Price reduction = promotion

Googled it lol

why are they not meant to discount the milk? Is it so that mothers dont get sucked into buying formula instead of attempting breastfeeding? Sorry to be dumb!
Thanks

at the biscuits for adding to milk!!!

I thought as much misdee; I'm just sceptical that after using something that has only been available for a week at the most one can say that they have had no problems or issues.

sorry not clear, Plasmon is a brand of Heinz.

Have PLASMON here is Italy.

they make amongst many items of baby food, a biscuit that is to be put into a teated bottle of milk, plain and chocolate ones and it is common practice here to also add them to yogurts etc.

have seen nurture this week at tesco. wasnt there last week though,.

I've been googling and I found this from ibfan. It appears that Heinz aren't as ethical as many people seem to think

Daisy, I know....that would prob be their defence if they were challenged...

tiktok, I suppose the discount is kind of permanent, ie until stocks of Farley's run out . They might be getting round it that way?

so has anyone been able to buy Nurture yet? I mentioned earlier that it isn't on the shelves here yet.

Asda are breaking the law. You are only allowed to discount if the discount is permanent.

I have been on the C&G site for healthcare professionals. Betapol is not mentioned as an ingredient in Comfort; there, and on the list of ingredients it is termed 'structured vegetable oil' which is what Betapol is...as I said, I had to drill down into SACN (govt advisory body) to find out that Comfort has had Betapol in it for years. Therefore, I can assume Bond had inside professional information.

Nurture is new - it's the only non-speciality formula to have Betapol and prebiotics in it. Comfort has both, but it is marketed as a 'sensitive tummy' formula, and is not in direct competition with C&G ordinary brands.

The decision to place Nurture in the mainstream will be purely commercial - they're taking on Comfort and the ordinary brands. Potentially, a bigger market for them.

wondering if i will ever learn to spell check before posting LacksaDAISYcal

I knew what you meant MatNan

sorry that was a garbled post, 0-6m ISNT allowed to be price reduced on special offers etc but only milks for babies 6m and over so Floow On's can be reduced/special offers, so sounds like ASDA being a bit naughty.

they are allowed to discount follow on but not 0 - 6mo.

my local asda had reduced the farley's 0-6 mo to £4 from 4.89. All the follow on which had the reduced label underneath was gone but not the 0-6 mo which was reduced but not marked as reduced.

Oh crikey, I don't know. It was definately follow on milk in a lilac tin if that helps.
I dont use formula for the 10mth old so am a bit out of touch...

yes it does just apply to milk for use before 6 months of age.

are they allowed to discount it? or does that just apply to first milks?

Right, for those of you that use farleys follow on milk it was in ASDA reduced to twenty pence!!! per 900g tin.This was yesterday.
I bought a tin to give to my ds (2.11yo) to have as a warm bedtime drink.
(I realsie this thread is not going this way anymore but for those lurking and using farleys it may be worth taking a look in asda?)

sorry FAQ didn't mean you were.

Exactly LackaDAISYcal.

Linked to the home page
here earlier.

the brochure was interesting reading.

talk about exploiting a market

this link probably deserves a thread of its own but will put it here to give insight into this betapol fiasco.

The betapol manufacturer and shareholders must be rubbing their bastard hands with glee.

The heinz PR department has gone home

Got a reply from MN and they are giving her the benefit of the doubt (I don't blame them for that, he/she hardly registered under bond@nurture.co.uk)

Might look out the misrepresentation legislation and report to the ASA

and where has bond disappeared to? note she is not here defending heinz any more.

I'm also interested about the availability of the new formula as well. It still isn't on any of the shelves here; at least it wasn't in Sainsbury's on Sunday. Is it widely available yet? and if not, how can she "have put her little one on it" already?

bond you have raised more questions than you have answered, it would be good of you to come back and answer them.....or was it clocking off time already?

I don't understand why they had to withdraw Farley's....why not just introduce the new one for parents that want it and leave the existing brand the same. Nutricia have two brands out there, so why not Heinz?

I honestly think they are showing very little regard for their existing customer base, partly because there is a finite time they will actually be customers (unless they go on to FF many more children), and partly because there will always be other parents lining up behind the ones they have alienated to help them get their share of the market.

hang on - please don't "but" me ! I wasn't arguing against the new ingredients - honestly!

Agree that bonds posts very

/believe/

And yes i noticed animals came BEFORE BABIES

I notice one of the sites i visited stated cows milk is to high in protein and salt and too low in other things like vitamins as babies aren't calves and the babies kidneys weren't made to deal with the first 2 and also were not meant to double their weight in 2 months.

Pass LackaDAISYcal, maybe were just meant to beliee their word unlikely now.

But FAQ : Nurture is a NEW milk so it is going to bother some babies and the parents DON'T have to benefit of switching back to Farleys

lol flibberty....I like how the babies come second after the animals (not!). I certainly wouldn't put my baby in a trial for something like this.....which is why I won't be buying Nurture

Quite so FAQ.....and this formula is NOT farleys, so it will probably cause a lot of babies (and parents) a lot of discomfort regardless of anything that the new ingredients might cause.

MatNan, I wonder how they can justify saying that over their helpline than?

Did like Belinda Phipps Comment, switch and if baby not happy switch again above the HV comment of basically seek HV advice first.

if your using a speciality milk your not going to be using Farleys / Nurture now are you!!

Exactly Flibbertyjibbet, who are these newborn testers.

"Changing your babies formula from one to another won't cause any illness."

True it probably won't cause an illness VS - but some babies just DON'T get on with other formulas (I speak from bitter experience after trying to change DS3 from formula to another and ended up with a very grumpy, grizzly baby, who refused his milk after a few bottles.......I switched back 24hrs later and the grumpyness stopped just as quickly as it started

Just so LackaDAISYcal: Bond said Betapol is used in C&G Omneo Comfort which has been on the UK market for 8yrs+, so how can it be new to the UK market

I first used it in May 2000 as the families first child was fussy, unsettled, windy, poopy, fretful and it was suggested by the HV for baby2 as it was marketed (and still is) as gentle on baby's digestion. Have used it for other families since. So that claim is out the window

All this talk recently of new recipe formulas and the studies done on them...

'Studies in animals and newborn babies have confirmed....'

Who on earth puts their baby in a TEST GROUP for new things to be put in their stomachs? Do they line them up next to beagles?

I don't get it.

oops, not sure what i did then ...i was trying to say I got the article from hunker's blog!

guardian article
thanks hunker, I

guardian article
thanks hunker, I

guardian article
thanks hunker, I

guardian article
thanks hunker, I

wonder if i can convince mum to not use Aptamil when weaning current BF baby in a few months. We have in date new Nanny Milk from NZ Friend but was told by a UK HV that it is a no-no (tho her DS used it and is a grand lad).

Will wander to the local baby shop (in Italy) and check out the other offerings, none of which are recognisable by name in the UK, tho here Apt comes in 3 stages 0-4m, 4-7m, and 7-12m.

In Theory HIPP is available but after speaking to her she is thinking of using the Nanny Milk she has.

Baby is BF but mum was VERY ill at the weekend sunstroke/tummy bug so couldn't feed, baby had Apt and very smelly/even runnyer stools and soooo fussy, we put it down to FF rather than BF but could be the FF we used

just seen this and my hackles are raised as well. Strange this comes after The Guardian article over the weekend that referred to this thread exactly; even stranger that a search of mynameisbonds posting history reveals this thread and this thread alone, a sum total of three posts. Now it could be that she read the guardian article and moseyed along to MN to check it out......but somehow I'm not sure that's the case.

I too have reported "her" posts

for whoever asked about why the price was so much, it was me who spoke to heinz last week and was told that this betapol is very expensive. they also said they were the only company to use it in the UK, justifying the increase over and above the price of Aptamil. I also queried what would happen if I fed it to my non-constipated baby and was told it wasn't like a laxative, it was much more gentle. I'm not convinced; if I take senna when I'm not constipated it will give me the runs; the runs mean the food isn't being digested properly and if food isn't digested properly then my body isn't getting the nutrients it needs...which is why perhaps they have felt the need to increase the amounts of vits and minerals in it. Am very very at the whole debacle.

from here

the brochure was interesting reading.

Have to say I have read Bond's posts again and I agree. The give away? The dig at Nutricia (who make Cow&Gate and Aptamil) for doing company sponsored research, whereas Heinz don't do this. I haven't a clue if this is true, and you'd have to do loads of digging to be sure about this.

The tone is also peculiarly inconsistent.

Found this:

Betapol™ has been developed in order to overcome the problems associated with poor fatty acid absorption from infant formula and the negative consequences of this on energy supply, stool consistency and bone development.
Studies in animals and newborn babies have confirmed that all the fatty acids in Betapol™ - including palmitic acid - are well absorbed into the bloodstream, and that only tiny quantities are lost in the feces. This greatly improves the absorption of dietary calcium and significantly reduces the amount of calcium lost in the stools. This, in turn, produces softer stools and a greater bone mineral density.

Stool consistency and bone mineral density in babies who receive Betapol™ are comparable to those seen breast-fed babies.

Isn't that 'special' ingrediant that makes the poo softer a kind of laxitive, not really something I want to give my child!

I just personally feel it's wrong to shoehorn mums into using formulas with novel ingredients in them. Fair enough - inclusion of new ingredients will increase the profits of the manufacturers, but there isn't clear enough evidence that these ingredients are beneficial for ALL babies to justify forcing mothers into using them.

Heinz has got rid of Farley's because it will result in larger numbers buying the new, expensive formula - many will feel they simply don't have a choice but to put their babies onto Nurture because they will feel it's closest to the brand their baby is already used to. The ethical thing to do would have been to introduce Nurture onto the market alongside Farley's. Then mums could have chosen to carry on with a formula that they were already happy with - (a formula that Heinz has sworn blind in the past was an excellent, safe food for babies) or switch to the new formulation.

neither of my FF older dd's had problems with constipation. one neice did, but that was ongoing and didnt end when the formula was stopped.

me too sabire...

i have formula fed two babies , never had an issue with constipation, nor any of the other babies i know.. whether breast or bottle as it happens.

Can I just say that if bond is someone from farleys/heinze then as far as I know what he/she is doing is illegal. You can't pretend not to be from that company and hand out "impartial" advice, whether it be formula or sports cars.

I have reported the post as it looks suspicious to me.

What makes me feel mad is that the only two places that stock farleys near me (boots and morrisons) took it off their shelfs about a week ago and aren't going to be getting that 'nuture' in stock till the 23rd of july so I've got no choice but to switch to something else, if they'd have given warning of when exactly it was going off the shelfs I could have stocked up instead of getting caught off guard and wondering which milk I should try.

x-posts. Yes, sabire - I agree about the odd juxtapositions of tone.

That's what I thought. The posts just read a little strangely.

Was particularly struck by her comment "If I'd wanted to use the milk which was the cheapest I would have breast fed." which suggests that use of formula wasn't forced by problems with breastfeeding, but because she believed it to be nutritionally the best for her baby. And given that she is so well informed as to the constituent elements of various types of infant milk, I'm a bit surprised that she would be unaware of the health benefits of breast milk over any of the formulas.

Big apologies, Bond, if you are genuine non-affiliated mum.

(I just can't help thinking that if I were in charge of PR at Heinz and had read all this stuff about boycotts in the press, I might think about sending someone down to mumsnet to try to limit the damage.)

Bond's posts strike me as lacking in authenticity. If I sat down and teased out the timbre of her posts, her tone - it's the juxtaposition of comments like: "the companies are strictly regulated as to what they can & can't advertise to parents" and "My sister had her babies on SMA and they were bunged up like anything". It's incongruous, the mix of marketing speak with slightly iffy sounding personal information.

Also these comments: "The price of Farleys HASN'T gone up by over £3 a tin as Farley's milk doesn't exist any more"; "If I'd wanted to use the milk which was the cheapest I would have breast fed" and "but when it comes to my baby I have to say that I won't cut corners price wise". Those sound like the sort of things a childless person would say!

You can just 'smell' when someone is a plant. I used to be an English teacher - I taught A level English language and would spend a lot of time analysing style and tone. If I had the time and the mental energy I could pick out specifically what it is that is 'wrong' with her posts.

Bond:

'If I'd wanted to use the milk which was the cheapest I would have breast fed.'

Oh right so now we are making formula feeding aspirational

Get back to composing press releases Bond and leave us to our boycott.

Blimey - is it her first posting? Then it is a bit, um, odd, isn't it?

OTOH, mumsnet has been in the press in connection with the hoo-hah and she may have been drawn to mumsnet as a result of those news stories.

She is very well-informed though - she knew that Comfort had Betapol in it, which is specialist knowledge indeed (I didn't know until I drilled into the SACN website and it isn't on C&G's website or named as such in their ingredients). She could be an HV or other HCP.

I don't normally question people's motives for posting, but I am very curious as to what drew you to this Heinz thread for your first posting on Mumsnet, Bond.

Forgive me for saying so, but you are sounding to me rather more like a PR person for Heinz than a well-informed mother.

"MOST babies do NOT have COWS MILK til 6 months"

Except if they're drinking formula, as most formula is made from cow's milk.

Bond:

Constipation is a big problem for ff babies, but even so - the majority don't have it, if the research done by the Department of Health is to be believed.

If Betapol softens the stool of babies whose stools are already, presumably, soft, then is this really desirable?

Hmmmmm.

Something doesn't smell right in here.

Is that you, Bond?

Crumbs at 'runnyer poop' pampers will go up in price soon as well due to increased sales of nappies and wipes.

Makes me glad my current family are breast feeding, using Bambino Mio and cotton wool.

To thenameisbond - I think you are missing the point here - ALL mums have the best interests of their babies in mind when buying anything for them. The PROBLEM here is that the mums who were feeding their babies FARLEYS were notified ONLY of a branding difference with the tins, NOT the ingredients, not the price. So, yes, had heinz been upfront with this information, the mums would have been able to make an INFORMED choice about sticking with nurture or changing to a different milk. I have twins, who were bf til 3 months exclusively, then ff as well as bf for a while...had I known what was coming, I would have continued bf but stopped...my poor babies were subjected to horrendous runny poo which made them really sore & I have had to change to another formula, it's pretty rude of you to suggest that price is the biggest issue here, it's NOT but - my husbands wages will not increase over night by over 50% so why should the price of this formula? I also find it VERY hard to believe that MOST babies suffer with constipation...MOST babies do NOT have COWS MILK til 6 months+ so this is not really a relevant piece of information or am I missing the whole formula point?! I have 4 children & none of mine have been constipated. HEINZ should be ASHAMED of what they have done - I will NOT be buying anything with heinz branding EVER again. I may be a small fish but if I jump high enough out of the pond, I will make a BIG ripple!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bond, I agree that formula is regulated in the UK. It's quite wrong - as some posts on mumsnet have hinted - to suggest that formula with new ingredients is put on sale casually and without any official check on safety or suitability. These checks do take place, of course they do. However, there are other commercial interests at work, as you acknowledge.

www.sacn.gov.uk/meetings/committee/main_sacn_meetings/27092001.html This comes from 2001, when the relevant govt. advisory body looked at Betapol. They asked for more information and research before approving it (it was, and is, an ingredient in Omneo Comfort, a 'speciality' formula marketed for babies with, well, I am not sure, colic and sensitive tummies, I think).

The further research was not forthcoming: "Meanwhile, new EC regulations came into force under which Betapol no longer needed final clearance as a novel food because it was already being marketed and had a history of use in some EC countries. Therefore, the manufacturer did not pursue COMA’s request for long-term follow up data. "

This makes me feel uncomfortable - and disinclined to accept that formulas with this ingredient are necessarily 'advanced'.

If you look at the Nurture website you'll see that the ingredient it has in it is called Betapol. If you google Betapol you'll find that Cow & Gate have had it in one of their specialist milks for quite a while so it's only a new ingredient to Heinz although it might be that they have had it in their milks in other countries before now as well. They can't just put anything into the milks - it is strictly regulated. They wouldn't have been able to put it in the milk unless it had been trialled and approved for use in the UK. I read somewhere in this thread that the amount of children it was tested on was small. As I understand it this is not unusual in clinical research involving children. It's also worth looking at who is doing the research. If it's someone on that payroll (as is a lot of the research that Cow & Gate and Aptamil undertake) then you can say there is a bias there to begin with i.e. it is not truly independent research.

Which was it, Bond? The fact it was made in this country (I didn't know that - and I can understand it would sway your decision) or the fact it is 'the most advanced' formula? Or both? Is it not understandable to be sceptical of 'advanced' ? You're right about the uniqueness of the combined ingredients in 'Nurture' but that doesn't make it better.

I think the issue is that we can't tell which is the 'best' formula, as there is no one telling us this apart from the people who make it, and they have something of a vested interest

You'll have seen from other threads that new ingredients are not always without controversy or concerning side-effects.

after reading just a few of your comment i dont think i will give my son the new nurture i keep stocked up so have some old farleys he wont toch anything else
my child hasbeen on farleys since he was born and i have told everyone how fantastic it is but now hienz have shot themselves in the foot with this

No I don't work for Farley's or Heinz. In relation to the ingredients of this milk compared to the others out there I did my homework & found out what they all contained or rather what the differential was between them. The other milks have either one (prebiotics) or the other (special protein)in them whereas this Nurture has got both those & the vegetable oil mix in it. I don't know if there's anything to stop the other companies putting it in their milk but if they do I can't imagine the price staying the same. I chose Farley's milk purely because it was made in this country. I didn't give the prebiotic or protein thing a thought when I chose Farley's but when I knew it was being changed I thought I'd better look a bit more closely at what was available. Contrary to what was said about constipation not being a problem it actually is one of the major problems associated with feeding cows milk to babies. I found all this information out by speaking to my GP, my health visitor and searching the internet. When I knew that farleys was being changed it made me realise I shouldn't decide to use something without researching it first - especially when it comes to my child. I know money is tight for a lot of people (me included - I'm a single mother)but when it comes to my baby I have to say that I won't cut corners price wise. I'm amazed that so many people read what was on the leaflet & didn't think that the price might go up. Agreed, Heinz should have put something on the leaflet about the change in price but what would have changed if they'd warned people? They wouldn't have reduced the price or carried on making the Farley's.

Well why didnt they bring this wonder milk out (nurture) and still sell the farleys then, dont care what any one says. The price is still too high no matter what the ingredients. Softer poo???? Not sure about that one. Well I still will not be using it.!!!! In fact not use any heinz products from now on. Not all women thrive with breastfeeding either, did give it a go for a while but when you got a hungry baby then demand is too high.

They can charge what they like as long as it is a consistent price, poorbuthappy.

Having said that, Hipp does not have prebiotics in it (as they cannot be made organically) and this might keep the price down.

But there are other reasons for pricing - some brands are priced deliberately higher to appeal to a different sector of the market.

Slightly off the main topic here, but when formula is a closed market (or sorry should that be subject to price fixing?) - ie most brands are around the same price, how come HIPPS is cheaper?

Glad your baby is happy on this new milk, Bond. But how do you know this milk is 'actually the most advanced of the milks available'?

Softer poo is not necessarily a good thing in itself. See the thread on novel ingredients for the concerns that have been raised in the US.

Anyway....lets say it is the most advanced milk (though again - how would you know?)...wouldn't it be a kindness to all ff babies to have this runny-poo-making ingredient in all brands?

This won't happen, though.

you sound like you work for farleys/heinz

babies poo should not need to be made runny by the addition of vegetable oil

This Nurture milk isn't just a change in name & packaging. If you compare it to the other milks that are out there it's actually the most advanced of the milks available. It has got prebiotics (like cow & gate and Aptamil) & a special protein in it (like Sma)& it has also got a special vegetable oil ingredient in it which makes the poo runnier thus preventing constipation. I have a couple of friends who are health visitors & they thinks it's a great idea as a lot of their time is taken up with constipated babies. I know its the only milk made in this country & that the companies are strictly regulated as to what they can & can't advertise to parents. I know that there were leaflets under the plastic lid of the Farleys tins telling people of the change to this new milk so it shouldn't have come as a complete surprise to anyone who used Farleys on a regular basis. I rang the careline to see if the price was changing & they said that it was so I was prepared for it. The price of Farleys HASN'T gone up by over £3 a tin as Farley's milk doesn't exist any more. I have put my little one on Nurture & haven't had a problem with it. I for one won't be swapping to another brand. My sister had her babies on SMA and they were bunged up like anything. My little one has been on Nurture for almost 2 weeks now & is doing well on it. If I'd wanted to use the milk which was the cheapest I would have breast fed.

What makes me feel mad is that the only two places that stock farleys near me (boots and morrisons) took it off their shelfs about a week ago and aren't going to be getting that 'nuture' in stock till the 23rd of july so I've got no choice but to switch to something else, if they'd have given warning of when exactly it was going off the shelfs I could have stocked up instead of getting caught off guard and wondering which milk I should try.

I totally agree. Im up for that boycott. I couldnt belive my eyes when I saw the price the other day. Arent we getting ripped off already with everything else like petrol etc, thing is as a family we have tried to cut down on petrol etc but cant put my poor little 6 month old on a diet. This milk is a necessity. These companies shouldnt be able to do this, im on my second email to them so far with no reply.

I too am totally disgusted with the price increase. I thought it was just going to be the packaging that was changing there was no mention of the shocking price increase. I couldnt beleive it when it went to Tesco. I thought the price had been marked wrong. Luckily Lidl had some on sale so I bought a few tins to keep me going. Dont know what I will do when it runs out I will have to change the brand definately not using Heinz!!! I will join the boycott too!

Can i just point out that Heinz Nurture sounds sufficiently different from Farleys now that you shouldn't worry about changing to a completely different brand. It has now got prebiotics (like Cow&Gate and Aptimil) and anti-constipation ingredient. Constipation shouldn't be a problem for most people anyway as long as mixed correctly and you give extra water in really hot weather if nec.

Happy to join boycott. Will not be buying Heinz Nurture at all. "Commited to fair prices" their Farley's tins say. Grrrr.

I too can't believe it!!! My 2 daughters both still drink formula and since changing to the Nurture tin have had an upset stomach. Also what I want to know is why did they feel the need to add all the new ingredients. When I phoned them to complain I was told it is due to the fact that most babies are constipated!!!! Where did they do their research!!

The last point -the price increase: who are they marketing their new product at ? With an economic crunch all we hear about in the press did they not think this might slash their profits even further!!!

BOYCOTT

My 8 week old Grandson was given Farleys from birth and was thriving.Soon as my daughter had to buy Nurture last week his poos went all runny the very next day!! I was fuming because the change of formula and putting it into a new fangled tin with built-in scoop leveller does not merit the HUGE increase in price!!!My daughter switched to SMA and the poos returned to normal within 24 hours!!So much for "improvement" I think it's a disgrace and Heinz should be ashamed of themselves!My daughter has pledged NOT to buy ANY Heinz products for her baby and I fully back her decision.Luckily there are numerous other baby product manufacturers who can more than cater for our babies!!!

Can I suggest if you want to start a boycott, you do three things:

-write a blog about it on something like Blogger.com, then,

- get a facebook group about it going

- then post those links on here and other Mums' sites, put them on your own email signature, and send them to people you know etc...

It is surprising how things can spread with a teeny bit of electronic effort...

I've just been shopping in Morrisson's(Lichfield).

There are still loads of tins of Farley's formula (yellow, blue and purple). There is also Heinz Nurture amongst them being sold at the same price (for now I assume).

I too think this is disgusting!!!

We have just been on holiday and when we got back we found that they had changed the brand!!

Luckily if you need any LIDL have it on sale at the moment I went and got 8 today so it will last till my baby is at least 10 months now!

Thanks to the person who posted the email link for Nurture- I have emailed them to express my disappointment and that I will no longer purchase Heinz products.

Doesn't matter what the RRP was - they don't live in bubbles, they must have known how much it was being sold for.

They don't test formula on many babies at all - there's not much restriction on what goes in it either.

All this would be clearer and more talked-about if advertising was banned - as it is, eg parenting magazines can't publish anything negative about formula or the manufacturers pull their advertising.

It is a disgrace and if mothers want to know what is going into the formula they're feeding their babies, less control over the information about it ought to rest with the companies who have profit as their motive.

PinkGlitter, many mums on here are going with Hipp Organic. It is closest in price as the old Farleys and has fewer additives than the rest of them on the shelf.

you may want to read this thread

I totally agree, and the problem I have here in Sheffield is that I can't even find tins of either Farley's or Nurture, I am not sure what I am going to do cose a- the price increase is annoying but on the other hand I need to feed my son! Does anyone know which formula is the closest in terms of ingredients? I am willing to switch but would like it to be as gentle as possible for the little one.

Right mummy's and daddy's Ive just spoke to farley's and they said

The reason for it being so dear is because FARLEYS was recomended to be sold at £5.99 but supermarkets sold it at £5 and thats why NUTURE as we now know it seems so dear because really its only gone up £2 not £3

But if you ask me £2 is too much of a big rise. Like Robwells (above) said the extra fancy packaging wouldnt cost them that much only a few pence and then they charge us full wack for adding something to the milk that wasn't really needed because all our and millions of other babies have been fine on the original FARLEY'S. Not to mention that this " new improved nuture " has upset my little lads tummy and he keeps bring it back up.
Hope this helps to explain whats gone on, they did say a bit more than that but this is the jist of things.

Please see my thread about journo wanting to talk to mothers....esp if you are serious about boycotting Heinz.

i have emailed them and no reply. i asked one of the workers in the supermarket why the price had gone up (thinking that it wasnt priced correctly!!) and she adv that it was due to heinz taking over farleys and for the new design!! the design is ridiculous. all the milk once youve scooped it off stays on the tin bit just below the lid. and if your unlucky enough to get it in the groove which closes the lid then its another 10 mins spent trying to get it out with a needle so that you get an air tight close!! i went out and bought 15 tins of the old design in 6 diff lloyds chemist-still at the old price... supposedly its just the new design that has gone up. which saved me a third of the price based on the new price....crazey

I have emailed them them now at least 5 times ans they have not got back in touch, think next 1s gunna be a phone call.
Has any1 else Rang? If so did they explain why the price has gone up so much?
Its a joke some ppl have farleys because of its good value and because they just simply cant afford a higher priced brand and now it 1 of the dearest. shock

My wife and I are just ass horrified over the price hype. We have always trusted the name of Heinz and chosen in preference to other brands. The fancy packaging may have contributed 15 or 20pence to the price but my main concern is the change in formula.
Why are our children in need of this increase in stress vitamins? Is is something to do with the credit crunch? Folic Acid too has increased does this mean our children are more tired and run down? Are they going to sleep just as well at night on the new formula? Are they going to have to suppliment with B complex and B5[Pantothenic Acid] during their school years as a consequence of developing a dependance on increased levels through their baby years?
How have Heinz been testing this formula?Very worried. robwells@manx.net

Right then ladies - let's do it! Lets BOYCOTT ALL HEINZ products, including the bloody baked beans - starting beginning of August. Get this message to as many of your friends as you can, I shall be sending a message via facebook to all my mates...Heinz think they can get away with this, let's just prove we, the consumers, have the last say! As an extra to this thread, look for the thread that starts "Sooooooo I spoke to a lovely lady on the heinz Tinytums consumer helpline" - You will not believe how few they trialed this new wonder formula on...& to be quite frank, my babies had raw bums cause it just made their poo REALLY runny!!! I have now changed to Hipp & luckily, they are ok with it, but what for the poor mums who had been through all the rest to get to farleys? Let's kick Heinz right between the legs, HARD!

Hi all, here is the number if you want to complain over the phone, i have. 0800 212991

I'm in total agreement...its a JOKE...JOKE...JOKE! I wont even be buying Heinz BEANS from now on!!

I'm also going to boycott. It's a disgrace. I will also be venting to the HVs to try and influence them not to recommend Heinz to people (and give them the history if asked is it better).

www.heinzbaby.co.uk/nurture/Contact-us.aspx#

Feel free to let rip there.

I'm also absolutely fuming about this - I'm guessing the reason they didn't pre-warn of the price increase was to stop sensible people stocking up. If I'd known about the increase I would have bought enough tins to last my 6mo DS at least 3 months.

I wouldn't have minded had they put the price up by a pound as Farley's was always the cheapest anyway, but now it is joint most expensive with Aptamil, but from what I understand Aptamil has had a lot more research put into it than rebranded Farley's.

The problem I have is that C&G gives my DS eczema and SMA just comes straight back up, so we're stuck with the two most expensive formulas now.

And before anyone starts harping on about formula (sorry I'm in angry mode today) not everyone can breastfeed successfully, no matter how hard they try.

Best way to combat the price hike is to choose a cheaper formula - nothing wrong at all with switching, as VS says.

Changing your babies formula from one to another won't cause any illness.
That's just another line from formula companies to stop you changing.

my DCs are too old for formula now, but i will happily boycott heinz. the price is ridicolous.

Me too - buggers

whatever happened to "committed to fair prices" which they used to put on the farley's tins? gobshites. am v on your behalf and certainly wlling to boycott.

I know from reading the message boards that there are lots of unhappy mums out there , due to the increase price, per tin of £3.30 that has been added to the Heinz nurture milk, which was formerly known as FARLEYS. I have twins, this is a MASSIVE increase for us & we should come together to do something about this, to show HEINZ that consumers DO still have power! The thing that annoys me the most is this price increase could have been notified, as the change of tins was notified. It's not ok to just change our babies formula over, this can cause stomach upset, constipation, vomiting. Heinz try to tell us they care for our babies, CLEARLY, they are all about PROFIT ...so let's hit 'em where it hurts!!!
We should boycott Heinz products for a week, all of their products, for one week. Believe me, they will notice the decrease in sales. Get all your friends to do it too, even if they have NOT been affected by this sly price increase. Please, let me know by answering this thread, if you think, collectively, as mumsnet mummies, that we could arrange this.
best regards, ANGRY MUM of twins x