Milk is an important source of nutrients that you and your family shouldn’t miss out on. If someone in your family has lactose intolerance and the rest of the family still want to enjoy the taste of real milk, try Lactofree - the UK’s first virtually lactose-free dairy drink.
Morgan's blog has a fantastic article about National Breastfeeding week and the problem with those awful posters. At the bottom, my account of my experience yesterday at the photocall for the Make Breastfeeding Normal exhibition - and the points that need to be made about that.
It's quite long - but there are things said in there that I could not say as eloquently and i feel this is an issue that needs to be in the public domain as much as possible!
Interesting - went to an exhibition of these posters in Spitalfields (east London), and I had a very similar reaction. I think it is quite ironic that the people asked to design these posters were 20 year old students - with very little if any experience of parenthood.
Posters are shit though, largely. How is a poster going to help anyone breastfeed?
The thing about breasts belonging to men makes me really uneasy. Are we going to see campaign posters for testicle checks with well-manicured dainty hands checking men's undercarriages with the slogan "Keep them unlumpy for your lover" on them?
I feel so depressed about the level of incompetence at all levels in our society. Who are these people and how are they given responsibility for important things and then make such a mess of them, and apparantly get away with it????
It seems to be everywhere - health, education, all government departments............
A large part of the problem is that a lot of people who can actually do something about it have had bad bf experiences themselves - either them personally or their wives or girlfriends. So you get obstructive council workers, NHS staff, etc, etc - after all, how many times do we hear stories of doctors who give their own personal judgements about bf, based on personal opinion? It's an emotive topic and it's something we should challenge with a simple "Is this evidence based advice, or is it informed by your personal experience? If the former, can I see the research, please and if the latter, please desist."
I think we need to get involved at a higher level with the BF Manifesto stuff - the decision-making level. Because this decision ought never to have been made. Mind you, the NCT uses sodding Davina "Garnier-Nestle" McCall to front their home birth campaign - they told me when I complained about this that it was a "tough decision to make" - they made the wrong fucking one though, eh?
how the fark do you make breastfeeding normal when they present airbrushed tits, taut tummies, leapord print bras and bustier?
I am not finished reading the blog yet. I will have to drag my optimism off the floor and hoist it's dead weight back onto my shoulders when i finish reading it.
Have already emailed them Hunker - am still awaiting any kind of response!
I think Morgan's final point "YOUHADBETTERSTARTTODOBETTERTHANTHIS" sums it up perfectly for me.
Avent have no place at this type of thing - they are code breakers and their marketing is dubious to say the least. The Vicki Scott debacle proved that. And kiskidee's point of making breastfeeding normal with an airbrushed model in a leopard print bikini...
They're not making breasstfeeding normal. They're making breastfeeding sexy, which completely misses the point.
but would a big flabby belly covered in stretch marks with veiny boobs do any better to promote breastfeeding? i think its trying to make it glamourous to young mums who do get their flat bellies back and do still wear sexy bras, i think its trying to aim itself to the 'have it all' generation.
1) the idea that MY breasts are 'tailor made' for my 'man' !!!!!!!!! Words just fail me...
2) I have never thought that I could be embarrassed about breastfeeding but I would feel embarrassed if one of these posters were around or if I thought people I was feeding near were aware of them.
Please tell me they are not going to be circulated!
Avent will not have been a 'sponsor' though, but an exhibitor...ie they'll have paid for their stand to be there rather than actually supporting the conference.
no twasnt suggested flab would be a good idea if was just a comment re the post about the taut belly. i dont like the sexualisation of bfing either, but i think its trying to appeal to those women that want both, bfing and sexyness, i breastfeed with a sexy bra on! no flat tummy here tho
I simply don't believe that the main reason that young twenty-somethings don't breastfeed is because it 'isn't sexy'.
I think it is because they feel embarrassed and awkward about feeding in public. When I was a first time mum I used to plan outings around where I felt comfortable enough to feed - eg places that had feeding rooms or cafes with discreet corners (I am much braver now).
Isn't the fact that too many people in the UK only regard breasts as something sexual the biggest problem we all face? These posters will simply make this worse for everybody.
Apparently the Royal College of Midwives are happy to have them as exhibitors because they have to do what their members want and their members are happy to have Avent ads.
I don't think there's any one "biggest problem" for any demographic, really.
It's more a combination of things (formula advertising; meaningless platitudes from people "happy mummy happy baby" which skim the surface of deeper feelings wrt breastfeeding experience; the general idea that formula is the same stuff, but in a handy freeze-dried form, the fact we live in a society that thinks babies are fed with bottles and doesn't see anything changing to confound that view; concern about bfeeding in public) - not just one thing.
i'm really shocked. what terrible posters - where are they going to be used, can they be stopped. I may be weird but i love being all wobbly and squishy. bf, for me is all about softness and gentleness - and is normally a beautiful thing to see. but those posters are vile
im in my twenties and the main reasons my friends gave up bfing were "their milk didnt come in" "too tired" "formulas just as good" and one who said too me "so boring" !!!
theAfka - maybe you could start a new thread with a different title (something like 'awfull bf posters' perhaps) to try and find out more - and what could be done.
I notice that the flyer to advertise the conference says that 'mothers' should attend - presumably without their babies as there were no facilities for them! I don't think they really meant mothers to go at all! Notice that 'mothers' are 3rd from last in the list when they should be first!
UD - I read your mates blog. I cant believe they treated you all so badly. Did you not even get a mention of thanks from the organisers? Were you spoken to by anyone other than the press? Were you even acknowledged other than to provide the event with a spectacle to be photographed? (did you get into the papers btw?) I don't understand why anyone would organise such an event and then treat you all like this. Its contemptable. Have you written to/contacted the organisers to discuss how you were treated?
Have read the blog. Can't believe the posters. I've also looked at Be a Star. What great pictures. I'm currently bf my third child,and nothing seems to have improved the image of bf in the 8yrs between no.1 and no.3. What can we do?
I think what I'm feeling is that breasts are primarily for milk and I hate it when friends complain about their DHs wantiing 'their' breasts back (utterly pathetic).
But, I feel as if I've worn nothing but nursing bras for the past 3.5 years. You frequently read posts on MN from mums asking for links to companies that sell sexy, feminine bras. So there is a conflict (?) between wanting to nurse for years and sexualise your breasts at the same time.
It's been done very, very clumsily, but I think the posters are maybe trying to bridge that conflict.
Agree those posters are dreadful, and I think they could be counterproductive. Should I give up because my experience is nowhere near that- because my breasts are often too tender for DH to come near me, or any bra i wear is likely to have milk leaked or sprayed all over it?
Is there really more need to convince women to start bf, than to convince them to continue beyond a few days? From my admittedly limited experience it seems like more needs to be done to publicise that it is normal to have problems when starting out in breastfeeding, but there is so much help out there go get you through these problems, and they can often be resolved with the right help.
If these posters do convince any woman to breastfeed, they are almost certainly in for a shock as to the realities of breastfeeding in the early days.
Highlander - nobody is saying that breasts shouldn't be sexual. No-one is saying that women should wear dowdy nursing bras for the whole of their time bf-ing. I think Morgan's point is that first and foremost breasts are for feeding babies, whereas these posters are saying, "No, breasts belong to your man, but hey girls, look, you can also give them to your baby! Isn't that great??"
From these posters - as Morgan says in her blog - the last person to have a say in who "gets" her breasts is the woman herself!! These campaigns should be about helping to empower women to make informed decisions about infant feeding, and that means being honest and clear about the realities of breastfeeding.
"Why should BFing mums only be portrayed as flabby and unattractive. My word, how dare we wear sexy bras?"
i think that there must be some middle ground between airbrushed super-sexy model and flabby, unattractive mum. What I would like to see is reality - a normal looking, average bf-ing mother, nursing her baby in a normal way. No man on the other side, groping her, no glass of vodka and orange. To make breastfeeding normal we have to get normal images out there - not soft porn masquerading as healthcare advice!
I just want women to be supported to breastfeed for as long as they want to do it.
Because, you know, if more women had better feeding experiences, more women would do it for longer.
It doesn't help to bang on about doing it for two years or talk about how dreadful formula is - it's got to be "Look, we know our stuff, we can help you to breastfeed, let's talk about what it's like to do it for other women, but also think about how we can make it work for you."
It doesn't need flashy, it doesn't need smug, it doesn't need sneering at - it just needs doing, quietly, calmly, with nobody judging one way or the other - just doing.
" Babies are born to nurse at their mother's breast: fighting to make sure their mothers have a choice in allowing this for as long as they both mutually desire it. Fighting to keep formula fed infants as safe as possible. Feeding your child is your personal choice: let's make sure it's your choice, not everyone else's."
Victorian Squalor, I was thinking about your calendar idea as I read this. Perhaps it is time that a proper BF campaign was started by real BFers, to show that BF can be portrayed tastefully. I'd be happy to have my photo taken.
agree that the posters are awful and sad that the London event was so hostile to bf mothers and babies, esp the Avent issue BUT...did anyone read further down to the news of the poor woman from Cameroon? what are we doing for her?
These posters were designed by young people with the precise aim of engaging debate on breast feeding with young people!
What's the problem with that!? Most 15-16year olds would prob welcome a suggestion that they can use their breasts as sexual objects and feed a baby - not one or the other.
There is a lot of work to do before every young person in that age group says breasts are for babies first and sex second.
There's a lot of sexual fun to be had from breasts when you're young... so introducing the idea of breast feeding alongside sexual fun is not altogether bad??
Madlentileater - there's not a huge amount we can do for Glory and Tracey I'm afraid. She is back in Finland now, with an asylum claim ongoing, on the basis that Tracey faces the threat of female genital mutilation upon their return to the Cameroon. We are hoping that Glory may become a vocal opposition for the anti-FGM movement, as it's so rare to find someone who will talk about it. It's way out of my league I'm afraid, but if you CAT me your email address I can put you on the Nursing Matters mailing list. That way, next time something like this happens (and isn't it depressing that i just know there'll be a next time? ) if you're in a position to, you can help.
I've read it all! I just don't agree with your interpretation of these posters.
I still think that young people at this present time see breasts as sexual objects only (and I agree that is a BAD thing) and that these posters are a tiny step along the road to saying "hang on - breasts are for feeding too" (which IMO is a GOOD thing).
I don't think that it is an easy job to try and gently move young non-pregnant people away from the over-sexualised view of the female body.
IMO this is an attempt (not a great one but an attempt all the same) to address young people from within their own mind set by just asking them to spend a little bit of time thinking about breastfeeding as a life choice that does not mean big white bras, droopy boobs and no sex!
So I don't agree that they are promoting breasts as sexual objects first - rather that they are acknowledging where young people are in regard to their bodies and breast and taking that as a starting point in a VERY LONG battle.
Usually lurk here for breastfeeding information but couldn't not post on this. I feel these posters do women, and mothers, no favours whatsoever as they are so unrepresentative of most women's experience of life with a breastfed baby. Would much prefer a realistic representation - so unhelpful for those struggling to suggest that life goes on as normal after a baby. Bereastfeeding has so much going for it I really wish the campaign had focused on the real positives.
Usually lurk here for breastfeeding information but couldn't not post on this. I feel these posters do women, and mothers, no favours whatsoever as they are so unrepresentative of most women's experience of life with a breastfed baby. Would much prefer a realistic representation - so unhelpful for those struggling to suggest that life goes on as normal after a baby. Bereastfeeding has so much going for it I really wish the campaign had focused on the real positives.
Have been musing on this one since yesterday (partly because my firewall rates Morgan's blog as NSFW lol). I was at the photocall (wasn't made clear to me that I had to bring DD so didn't join the photos or stick around for long), and also went to the poster exhibition.
I wasn't totally comfortable with all the images in the exhibition but my take on it was that it was there to provoke discussion and give a different perspective. Yes, some of the images are quite sexual, yes the posters that you object to show an idealised form of female beauty and I see that that could be contentious but I really cannot accept that there is nothing sexual about breastfeeding given that it is a fundamental part of female sexuality. I read the poster showing breasts and hands as saying that breastfeeding is a close and intimate bond within a family and does not exclude fathers, as many people still seem to think.
FWW (but will check) my understanding is that the posters were an exercise, not a new campaign.
And although I have sympathy with Morgan's friend re how the photocall etc was conducted, really what did you expect? It's not to condone the things but happened but it kind of goes with the territory.(I say this having done some media work this week around bfing)
But Gagarin - the issue is not getting young mothers to try bf-ing, it's getting them to carry on past the 6 week mark! I think the uptake on bf-ing is something like 80% and then it's 10% who carry on past 6 weeks. (Tiktok may be along later - i think she knows the proper figures)
I think my main issue with these posters is that they are telling mothers (and these posters are aimed at young mothers as well) that their breasts are not for them. They're for their man, their baby, but not the woman herself, oh no! We should be empowering women and mothers to make their own decisions - not giving "ownership" of their breasts over to a man! The posters say the exactopposite to what we need them to say - so I disagree wholeheartedly with you saying that they're not that bad! Sorry!
They are that bad - and the way that they've unveiled them as a fait accompli with the exhibtion and the National Breastfeeding Awareness week suggests that "they" know how bad they are too...
lizzy - I am not naive when it comes to the media. My dh works in PR and I have been to these types of event before. I think where I went wrong was that I expected this to be an event celebrating women and breastfeeding, not a corporate PR event for code-breakers to peddle their wares.
The poster with the hands would not be so bad if the mother's hand was with the baby's. But she "sides" with the man - making it very clear where her priorities should lie.
The posters are terrible I agree, but nothing compared to the post after about poor Glory and Tracy. Makes me feel disgusted that my own country can act iin such a way
The posters are utterly terrible. One of my biggest problems with bf is that I feel I am just being pawed at- not my own person, that my body is not my own. Then, after DD has spent hours and hours pawing at me (I know that sounds harsh but it is how I feel), DH wants a go too. The first poster in particular really plays up that- everyone have a go on my body, I don't even have a head let alone feelings about that.
I wasn't at all surprised to hear that it was designed by someone who has never bf. Is there any way at all that we can collate these comments and get them to stop rolling out the posters?
And as for urbandryad's experiences... words fail me. Sodding Express- unbelievable.
i had a meeting at my city hospital today with the Matron and Infant Feeding Specialist. They both groaned audibly and rolled eyes and said how ghastly they found those posters. Otoh, our PCT have designed some excellent ones!
Milk is an important source of nutrients that you and your family shouldn’t miss out on. If someone in your family has lactose intolerance and the rest of the family still want to enjoy the taste of real milk, try Lactofree - the UK’s first virtually lactose-free dairy drink.
(You and Morgan write really well 
)
so introducing the idea of breast feeding alongside sexual fun is not altogether bad??
