I couldn't breastfeed my children who are now 5yo and 8mo (don't really want to get bogged down in the reasons, it just didn't work for us). I was distraught at the time and felt horribly guilty about it but I'd managed to let it go to some extent. The other day DD asked why I didn't give DS "milk from my breasts anymore" and I just burst into tears. BFing was not an enjoyable experience for us at all, so I am definitely happier in some respects, but I still feel so sad about not being able to do it. Anybody else?

Tink, this is a very common experience, and a deep, hidden grief for many women. It's not often expressed, as women are supposed to 'feel grateful they have a healthy baby' and 'accept that ff babies are just fine', and they may blame people like me (breastfeeding counsellors) for 'making' them feel guilty.

I don't think the grief has much to do with worrying about the health effects. It's to do with the ending of a relationship that felt important to you....and why wouldn't you be upset at that? Acknowledging the power of these feelings, and then understanding that in truth, you can mother your child just as well whether you ff or bf, will help you move on and while you may always be sad about it, you will be able to 'let it go' in time.

I hope others will post with their own experiences.

i do

i had a miserable time of it - refluxy baby, no help or support from HV

i just didn't know what to expect, so i was totally unprepared for a baby that wanted to feed all the time

a friend of mine has just had a baby and i feel a yearning to breastfeed a LO of my own again

Thanks Tik. I think it's also the thought of failing at something which is supposed to be so natural.

i tried to bf 2 of my 3.it lasted about 5-6 weeks with both.i did feel bit guilty to begin with but when i look at my children i see 3 happy healthy and well loved children regardless of how they were fed.breast may be best but if its not working out then obviously mum and babies happiness and health comes first.

me too tinkjon, although my anger is no longer at myself, but at the system that let me down. i did briefly consider trying to relactat when DD was 2 (!) as i was still leaking a bit.... i no longer yearn for another baby, but to breastfeed. i know i could have done with help. and that i am astounded at myself for not looking into it more when i was pregnant, and just blidnly going into formula feeding

<<holds ruby's hand>>

i dont so much feel bad at stopping bf ds1 after 6 weeks(it was doomed from the start through no fault of my own)as not trying to bf my other 4 dc because the first experience put me off for life

Hi Tink, me too.

DD couldn't latch on so within 3 days my nipples were completely shot to pieces, bleeding all the time and really painful while MWs etc discharged me and said it was just something we had to get through. When milk came in it was even worse as massive engorgement and mastitis starting quickly after...

Anyway, gave DD formula -she slept for the first time in 5 days. Eventually I got a MW over who helped and we found a way for me to feed. I mixed fed until 4 months when I had to go on very serious antibiotics (unconnected) and was told I was absolutely not allowed to BF for 6 months. Now the six months is almost up part of me wants to start up again even though it seems a bit silly.

I feel angry with myself for not trying to go back to exclusive BF when I did get the hang of it a bit, and for the lack of support and help. I really wish now I had looked into it more in pregnancy and really want another baby now to give it a good go (although also feel guilty about the fact I would be making more effort with DC2 when I love DD so much...) Aarrrgh.

Sorry, just thought I'd say I know how you feel, and thanks Tiktok

badger - it is not silly to want to try bf again.

It is highly unlikely you needed to stop bf 'cos of the a/bs, and even less likely you needed to stop totally...but this is what mothers are told to do, and it is absolutely not their fault if they accept it

Women have started to breastfeed again after a long gap - yes, even as long as this.

It's not easy, you need to work at it, and only you can decide if it is worth doing (as it takes up a lot of time) but physiologically speaking, it can be done.

If you want to know more, you could start another thread as it's not really approp. here.

I really wish I'd tried harder with DD, asked for more help or even looked up something somewhere.
She was in SCBU nad I spent every moment away from her tearing myself up 'cos I couldn't handle she may die, instead I should've looked for more help.
But I try not to blame myself anymore, I think that the people in hospital that could see an obviously struggling 19year old that had no clue as to what to do, but was willing to try, should have done more than shove me in a room with a victorian looking breast pump and tell em to get on with it.

It's times like yesterday when DD cried her heart out about having eczema that it really hurts though, knowing that maybe if she'd been BF she wouldn't have it

Lulumama, I can understand your anger at the system, but tbh I didn't expect anything from them anyway (how sad is that?!)
Like some others have said, I am angry at myself for not doing more to try and succeed. In my 2nd pregnancy, a friend had the great idea of contacting a bf counsellor beforehand, to try and prevent the same problems happening again and I really did intend to do that, but you know what it's like with a kid to look after, everything except day-to-day necessities just gets left I really, really should have contacted somebody when I was struggling after DS's birth but everything was all so over-whelming and I was so ill after my cs that I just didn't do it <smacks self on forehead> I stopped, felt initially relieved, but then felt much better after the cs problems so decided to try to re-lactate. I did get some supply back but with a very demanding DD around, I simply couldn't put the time needed into it. It wouldn't have been fair to her.
VictorianSqualor, I think it was DS developing eczema that made me feel the same way too. But, although BFing can go a long way to protecting against allergies, if it's in your genes then chances are that it's not going to make a lot of difference. Also an allergy specialist told me that bf-ing only puts off eczema developing if it's in your genes, it doesn't prevent it altogether (not sure whether that's true or not but I'm repeating it anyway).
LittlestBadger, I agree with Tiktok, it's not silly to think about starting again at all! It would be a struggle but it can certainly be done!

Ah, I know the eczema could very well still have been there, but DS1 doesn't have any of the problems she does (asthma, eczema, hayfever etc) and he was breastfed, so it's all too easy to put the blame on myself.

Tinkjon I still feel horribly guilty and am terrified at the thought of what I will do if I have another baby. I know I want to try again but am so scared of failing again.

I think I cried most days for the first 6months of dd's life - I felt like i had let her down and should have just got on with the toe curling pain and bleeding and found a way to stop her arching her back and going into melt down every time I fed her.

I did try to get help - I went to a bf clinic - and they latched her on straight away. She slipped off and even 2 bf counsellors couldn't get her to latch back on and I had to resort to formula at the clinic.

When dd turned 6mo something in me changed and the guilt has gone but I still feel so sad that it didn't work.

If I have another baby and I am lucky enought that bf works out next time, I am scared that the overwhelming guilt over dd will come back.

Dd also has eczema and it breaks my heart when I see her scratching at her face.

OP you are not alone and I can identify with the very emotional reaction you still have to your experience.

I managed to bf dd for 4 months and then mix feed till about 10months. But to me it was still a "failure" and not at all what I expected. I was in quite severe pain every day for about the first 6 months - even after mix feeding started - and dd was v slow to gain weight until she started on ff.

I did seek help and saw different bfcs and went to a support group. In some ways that made it worse, because I had loads of help and I still couldn't crack it. I also have a lot of guilt because I know that some women will look at my experience and see it as a relatively successful one compared to their own. So there is a bit of a feeling that I should be grateful that I could carry on with it.

I had so much pain - my nipples just would not heal - I think I got thrush, then was allergic to the cream I was given for it. Then I got a breast infection. I was feeding (and expressing) through the pain the whole time.

I am still so sad about the whole experience. Instead of being a happy time, the first months of her life were just pain and stress.

I'm 38 wks pg, keen to bf again, and massively anxious. I'm reading up and trying to prepare better this time but I'm scared it will go the same way again

Meep - understand totally about what you say. I went to a bf class whilst I was pregnant, read literature about it and tried in earnest to bf my DD after an emergency c-section. I was astounded at the pain and bleeding etc. like so many women and really tried to perservere. But my DH got really angry and worried as our DD wasn't gaining the weight she should have done. I went to the bf clinic a couple of times but was totally put off by a very patronising counsellor (she was probably really tired though) and just burst into tears on the way home and cried for weeks afterwards. The guilt at not being able to bf my DD beyond a few days after her birth is still very much with me, I feel like a total failure but for goodness sake what was the alternative? Someone I know had a daughter who went into cardiac arrest after her mother couldn't bf her. I am still blisteringly angry at the way bf is promoted by so many people as the only thing you should do. A lack of support and inability to physically get to a bf clinic after the birth (try driving when you're recovering from a c-section) means that it just isn't an option for everyone. Plus you've got the negativity of mother and MIL telling you not to bother as they had problems themselves and assume you will be the same, and unwanted guests hanging around after the birth, so how on earth are you supposed to do it?
So please to all those who promote bf so heavily, just lay off a bit to those of us who couldn't. We are not careless, selfish mums and those of us who couldn't bf have got to live with the guilt.

totally. when i was pg with ds i didnt even consider ff, i was so certain that i would bf that i didnt buy any bottles or equipment at all. for a long time after i gave up trying (very ill post-section) i was angry at women who could bf and felt like a failure and that they were judging me and my substandard femininity. after all, i had failed at giving birth, i had failed at the first 2y of ds's life and i had failed to bf. this contributed hugely to my pnd even after i lost my resntment at ds being "delivered" i still resented my body's inability to work properly. when in fact it was poor information that was to blame. if id known then what i know now... etc

apple

You'll find that people (like me) who are involved in breastfeeding promotion are also heavily involved in actually enabling women to do it. I agree - telling people how great it is blah blah blah is actually very unkind without at the same time working against the cultural and healthcare practices that make it so difficult to do.

You'll also find that the organisations that work to improve breastfeeding experiences and breastfeeding rates never talk about 'careless' or 'selfish' mothers - ever. No one who understands anything about infant feeding would even think that.

These feelings are projection - mothers who wanted to breastfeed worry and beat themselves up and break their hearts and think others might be thinking these horrible things about them, but they are truly not.

Promoting breastfeeding - making it a real choice to the many mothers who know very little about it - is not the same as saying 'if you didn't breastfeed, then you are selfish'. It really isn't. But when you are in a bad and unhappy place, you take any discussion about the positives of breastfeeding as a personal criticism...and it feeds into your unhappiness

thats it exactly tiktok, i have argued so many times on here about ff/bf and now its as if a cloud has been lifted. i understand that while i feel guilty, its not my fault. and its not the fault of the women who successfully bf. they were lucky, i wasnt.

I thought I was over it (dd is 22 months) but I met someone at a barbecue yesterday who asked me how long I'd breastfed, and all those feelings of complete inadequacy and despair came rushing back. I said 'we didn't - I failed', and it was all a bit awkward. She was very nice about it though.

Tinkjon. I have massive feelings of failure. I fed my dd1 until she was nearly 3 but have had massive problems with dd2 resulting in me being on medication and dd2 being mixed fed. I struggle with my feelings of inadequacy and failure. I have written the whole experience down and I actually blogged it as well as a catharsis.

I was extrememly lucky and had a top class breastfeeding consultant to help me- without her I wouldn't have been able to feed at all as I just wasn't producing any milk.

lissie- I feel like that (although I didn't have a cs) but I was so convinced I wouldn't have any problems with her cos I'd been fine with dd1 that it hit me like a bolt from the blue when she was losing weight and then it turned out that it was my fault. I feel so badly let down by my body. It doesn't help that loads of my friends breastfed and one had a baby a few months after me and is successfully breastfeeding- it tears me up although I'd never wish anyone my problems iyswim.

applepie, I, like many others on MN, am very pro-breastfeeding and will always say it's the best thing to do, I shan't go into it on this thread as it isn't the place but I get quite annoyed at Formula companies both with their sharky advertising tactics and their lack of public information available, I aslo get really fed up with HCP's giving incorrect advice rather than handing new mothers over to the professionals, but I will never have anything but support for a mother, support to feed their baby whichever way they want and to be able to easily access the help needed if they are struggling. (Why should we have to jump hoops??)

For those of who are worried about feeding a next child, please don't be disheartened, I fed DS1 for 8months before returning to work and am now feeding DS2 (4weeks in so far) without any real problems so it is perfectly possible, just be willing to look for help or use formula if it isn't as easy as you would like.

Lastly, none of us are failures. Not one.

Thanks Tiktok, Tink and VS. I have found this thread very helpful and actually much more use than the proud to ff style ones. I do think it is important to be able to tell stories of BF problem so that we can get over the feeling of being judged for failing when it is actually only usually something we do to ourselves.

I do find it interesting that I am FAR more pro-BF now and much less ambiguous about it than I was before DD was born and I think it helps with that because I found it so hard.

Similar experiences here. DD is 2.4yrs now and breastfeeding another is something I still think about most days with anxiety. I was a 36K when I was feeding, and felt horribly self conscious. She fed for hours and hours on end and I was so exhausted that we gave her formula at 6 weeks old. She had that night time bottle for another six weeks, then we added another. In the end I fed for ten months, but for the last month it was only once a day.

I still feel like I failed. Partly because I didn't suffer pain mastitis, cracked nipples or the like, I just couldn't hack the endless feeding, the sleep deprivation, and the feeling of being tied to my baby. I also had bad PND.

I would love to exclusively feed a baby for six months, and still feel that I'm inadequate because I just don't believe I can. Am also pretty ashamed that I didn't fall in love with the whole experience. I also hate the thought of being so huge again.

So, holding your hand, and letting you know you're not alone. Sigh!

This is a really helpful thread OP. I am currently "failing" bf. But I am in an ok place at the moment after having a chance to grieve what I thought would be a given. What I thought would just happen.
I always wanted to breastfeed, I read books about it, I talked to people about it, I've had a good hard go at it. My body just isn't providing(and I've tried everything I can think of or that's been suggested). I've had great support from excellent professionals and from friends who have struggled too. But, as someone said earlier, having good support makes you feel even worse when it doesn't get bf back on track.
I will always be pro-breastfeeding, but I'm not exclusively breastfeeding my own baby. And that's tough to swallow sometimes.
My next step is to be able to go out and ff my baby in public and not think that I'm being judged. It's not rational, but those feelings are there. I want to shout at everyone- look, I TRIED!

I tried and failed at 6 weeks with DD (but continued with mixed feeding til 4mths) and at 6 weeks with DS. I still have feelings of inadequacy about it. I had loads of help and support on both occasions, breastfeeding counsellers, lactation specialists, good m/ws - you name it- and also tried my damndest. But both times both of my DCs failed to thrive and had not regained their birthweight by 6 weeks. And I was demand feeding to beat the band...

I am now pg with DC3 and basically have decided that I will give bf a go, but there is a strong part of me that believes that for whatever reason I am not "built" to breastfeed. I know this is not a fashionable view - but I think that there surely must be some people who can't do itf or whatever reason. Not many mind you.

I don't hold the pro b/f lobby responsible. Having met a very large number of those like Tiktok who try to support encourage and enable b/fing - I have found them to be by and large like her, lovely supportive and non-judgmental. I think it is good that as a society that we really do try and encourage b/fing. I wish I had suceeded at it. But I do know that the unfortunate by product of promoting it is to encourage a sense of guilt in those who tried and failed. I don't know how you get around that.

My Dh laughed when I said I would be relaxed this time about trying to b/f - he remembers only too well the tears and recriminations the last time. But experience has taught me that as my children get older the method by which I fed them in the first 12 months' of their life is not really THAT important.

e14- we've spoken before about this I'm sure> I don't know if you want to read my story and the steps available plus have links to breastfeeding consultants- if you do my blog is here. Please don't feel you have to read it but I wrote the experience as a catharsis and have blogged it all just incase it helps anyone else

VictorianSqualor it's not the FF that made your daughter get eczema, she would have anyway. BF may have lessened the effect of it and the longer you could have done it the better the chance, but she has the genes for it and that's why she has it. And just because your son doesn't have it, doesn't mean it's because he was breastfed vs she wasn't. It's exactly the same as my sister is blonde/ blue eyed and I'm auburn/ green eyed. The genes for both are there and it depends which ones are passed on each time, other wise we'd just be clones of our parents.

"angry at the way bf is promoted by so many people as the only thing you should do"

Please don't be angry at that, be angry at the health profession who promote it without the knowledge to back it up! That's what annoys me when I hear stories like yours. You could have done it if the right support had been there. (I like what TikTok said, better than what I did )

We're so caught up on growth charts and our HCPs get so into them that if a child isn't growing fast enough it's very quickly mum's milk that's blamed. BF babies often don't grow as fast and I'm quite convinced in this day of FF that our babies are bigger than what they should be. Someone said this to me recently when I said about Tink going from 9-12 to 12-18 month clothes "How do you know that's not what size babies are supposed to be?"

From around 2.5 months Tink weighed the same (6lb 2oz) on her weekly weigh-ins for four weeks. My HV got more and more panicked each time. Eventually she insisted that I topped her up, which I wasn't happy with and gave about 1 top up a day. She still wasn't happy so I rang the NN MW. She got me to see the paediatrician who was happy with her weight and referred me to the BF clinic. They were also happy with her weight but knew they needed to get HV off my back and put her on what I call the body building diet. I'm not going to explain it here because it's for your HCP to sort out. It involved a lot of extra feeds from me and a lot of formula (I happened to be on holiday in Majorca at the time we did this, which was great as a. it involved a lot of sterilising and b. she out grew all her EB clothes, I hadn't taken NB and the only baby shops were M&P type - IE expensive!) It took her a week to catch up to where she was on the chart (not that she was ever on it) and after that she refused the extra feeds. BUT it took till I introduced solids to get her back off of the formula. I still beat myself up because it was done for the HV only and meant I only managed 2 months of exclusive BF. I feel like I failed my girls over their births and then failed Tink over her feeds. My only consolation is that we're still going.

Like I said, I know it isn't why she has it, but had she been BF she could possibly have avoided it or at least had it less than she does.

Pixie - powerful story on your blog. Have left a comment

hairtwiddler, I'm 34H so I can understand that. When Tink was first put to the breast she looked so tiny, I had a nursing cushion and a pillow to get her high enough and it wasn't enough, that I didn't think she could do it!

The PND is an odd one, for some it helps to BF and some it makes it worse. For me, because I didn't view Tink as mine, it helped. I know a few people from the PH that have gone both ways with it and some that couldn't because they needed to be medicated far more than they needed to BF.

If you ever have another one, don't let this put you off. You are capable with the right support. Visit The Breastfeeding Community for a local councellor or group that can help you. I'd recommend that site to anyone who needs help (and if you're in Birmingham, I can recommend some really good support!)

me. dd was born brain damaged and couldn't suck and I spent 6 hours a day expressing while driving back and forth to NICU and looking after 3 other kids.
I know it wasn't feasible to continue but still feel crap 4 years on.

Pixiefish - your blog brought tears to my eyes. Thank you for sharing your experience. It sounded so similar to my own - fenugreek, lactation consultants,"failure to thrive". But well done you for perserving. I am in awe....

tiktok- thanks for the comment. I would be interested in any ideas you have- as I said on my blog all avenues were investigated re my ITP and SB (lactation consultant) couldn't fathom it either. If you email me via

heathertaiisaf @ yahoo .co .uk

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Turniphead- thanks -I don't feel deserving of anyone's awe. Sometimes I felt selfish for perservering- if i'd put her on formula then she'd have thrived- iyswim.

riven- hugs

I still feel miserable and guilty and useless. Think I always will though. More so because I made it to 4mths with DS1 and only to 6weeks with DS2.

Partly blame the HV I had given dodgy advice, but mostly myself for not having more grit and determination (VERY painful and cracked, scabby nipples despite good latching on, and unbelievably slow milk 'let-down', if that's the right phrase for it! With both babies.)

Pixie- I have read your blog and found it really helpful.

tiktok- just noticed that the board has changed my email addy due to te underscores so here it is again heather _ tai _ isaf at yahoo dot co dot uk.

the lines are underscores

e14mum-thanks

Thank you OP for this thread - I normally steer clear of the feeding threads as I know they will just make me feel terrible again. When I found MN (after my feeding failure) I became obsessed with the bf threads and would just sob while I read them. I realised it was not exactly healthy and stopped reading them. But this thread has made me realise that I was in a mess over it but I can deal with my feelings now.
I am so proud of my friends who are still bf - 10 months on, but I worry that I may have been "off" with them when I was going through my bad patch. I hope that they know that the real me is here now.
I will try again - I had never thought of contacting a bf counsellor before the birth but I will if there is a next time. I also know to get help at every feed when I am in hospital instead of trying to latch my wee baby on myself, 5 hours after an emergency c-section thinking that is just what you did (I did get severely told off by the midwife for that - but I was still too full of drugs to realise that I was meant to buzz for help!).

Tiktok - thanks for your post. I do see what you are saying, but it just seems that hardly a week goes by without there being some new report out extolling the virtues of bf. There can't be many pg women or new mums in this country who are not aware that 'breast is best' even if they know little more than that or how to do it. I am just sick and tired of it all and wish that the government would put its money where its mouth is - i.e. fund or train and support a great deal more bf counsellors so that bf can be encouraged and nurtured long term amongst new mums. Instead of spending money commissioning reports telling us what we already know and which has been proven over and over again, put the money into training up a generation of bf counsellors who can help women both in hospital and at health centres and their homes if possible. Midwives have enough on their plates without having to help new mums in hospital.

sounds like everyone here did their level best to feed as long as they could/wanted to. please don't use the word failure - it is so negative. stopping breast feeding, not being able to b/f or not wanting to doesn't make any mother a failure.

Me too.

Lithium in my case - she never got a drop of colostrum.

I have had great thoughts from tiktok before.

But I still am not great at living with the guilt though. My mental health meant that I put me before the baby - can't get much more selfish than that.

the problem is choufleur that I felt like a failure and that's whay I was using that word.

I know that I am not a failure but it didn't/doesn't change the way I feel about.

I agree that not being able to/not wanting to bf definitely does not make any motehr a failure and I certainly don't view any other mothers that way.

I was just trying to put accross the depth of emotion that it made me feel.

mylittlepudding - having a mummy who was well and without mental health problems is incredibly important - you are not selfish

Applepiemummy - well said! Can't remember the statistics off the top of my head, but seem to recall that, where I live, around 85% of babies are breastfed from birth, but by 6 weeks it's less than 40%. By 6 months, the proportion who are still breastfed is negligible. I think that says it all really - so many women do want to breastfeed, and begin by doing so, and then if it doesn't work out, there just isn't the support there. I certainly wanted to breastfeed DD, but only made it to 6 weeks, and felt (and still sometimes feel) so inadequate for not managing to breastfeed her for longer.

Out of my antenatal group, only 2 out of the 10 babies are still being breastfed at 3 months. All of us fully intended to breastfeed, and none of us made the decision to stop lightly or easily. I agree that there needs to be more investment in providing support for women who wish to breastfeed, both post- and ante-natally. My antenatal class consisted of six 1-hour sessions, and I think we spent all of twenty minutes discussing breastfeeding. It was just assumed that everyone would, and there was no discussion of possible difficulties, nor of where to get support in the event of any problems.

I look back now (with my wisdom of 3 months of motherhood ) and feel very, very naive. I spent so much time reading about pregnancy and labour, and not much at all about breastfeeding. My midwife gave a cursory nod to discussing feeding (whilst advising me that I should only feed from one breast per feed - thanks for that!), and my mum's advice was to just "stick the baby on the breast and it comes naturally". I knew about nose to nipple and eliciting the gape so as to allow the baby to get a big mouthful of breast rather than just nipple, and stupidly thought that was all I needed to know...

I suppose that's why this advice of "breast is best" winds me up so much - people know it's best - look how many want to do it FFS! It's the support both during and after birth that we need, more people like you, Tiktok, and the other BFCs who post on here (none of whom I've ever seen be anything other than supportive, constructive and sympathetic BTW) not some stupid patronising slogan.

*And breathe...*

Thanks Tinkerbelles mum, looking up that website now. I think PND (and feeling completely overwhelmed by the responsibility) and body image issues had a lot to do with me ending up mixed feeding. These days when I read about any formula negating the effects of breastfeeding I still feel wretched. It's irrational I know - DD is healthy, happy, bright, with no allergies, no asthma, and is rarely ill!

I never had the getting her high enough problem. Couln't use a breastfeeding pillow as she would have been squashed!

Agree I think loads more support needed. I found the support of NCT classmates helped me through the worst times, but really could have done with someone who knew more about feeding who could have said, 'you're doing great', or 'it will get better', or who could have advised me on expressing so that DH could have given me a break from feeding for a bit.

Glad to have found mumsnet in the meantime!

I hope you don't mind me posting on this thread as I did successfully breastfeed but I just wanted to voice support and say that I totally understand the sentiments expressed here.

I did not have any thoughts on breastfeeding until I became pregnant but then once I decided that I really wanted to breastfeed all I seemed to read/hear about during pregnancy were the negative points of breastfeeding, the pain and discomfort, what happens if your milk doesn't come in, thrush, mastitis, constant feeding, leaking, etc.

After DD was born I was almost afraid to try as I was convinced that I wouldn't be able to or wouldn't have enough milk as I had no colostrum/leaking during pregnancy. I approached it with a grim 'military-like' determination and it took many months before I was able to relax into it and become more confident.

I struggled with the latch for several days, spending literally hours in sweaty, anxious tears with a hungry, jaundiced DD hovering near the breast until a miraculous midwife sorted us out and gave me the confidence that yes, I could do it, despite what everyone else said, negative comments from 'helpful' family members, etc. I know I would have been very upset if it had not worked out and as I have tendency to dwell on/obsess about stuff I am sure that would have lingered on.

As it is I still have lingering feelings of inadequacy as after being induced 11 days post due date, my labour ended in an emergency c-section and I feel as though my body somehow failed to go through birth 'properly'. My point is I guess that we all have feelings of guilt/inadequacy about something. (I am currently feeling guilty for instance about getting impatient with DD who was pulling the phone out of the socket whilst I was on the phone to my boss earlier...) What I am trying to do though is to focus on the things I know I do well and accept that am not superwoman and no-one can be great at everything.

I hope that wasn't too long and that it makes sense to someone else other than me!

Thanks for your posts, everyone. Hope I haven't brought back too many bad memories for people.

e14mum, I so agree about ff in public! especially in situations where other mums are breastfeeding their babies. You want to have a sign round your neck saying "I tried my damnedest!" I was in Ikea the other day and asked if they minded if I sat and fed my baby at a seat by the checkouts (the only place I could find to sit). The woman there said "sure - do you want me to get a chair facing away from the room?" and I had to explain that I was ff so it didn't matter, which made me a bit sad.

hairtwiddler, I was a similar size to you (38k) and I think this was our biggest (no pun intended ) problem. No way my lo's could latch properly onto those monstrosities!

Turniphead1, I was the same as you - genuinely thought I wouldn't be bothered if BF didn't work this time round, as I can see that DD turned out alright. It was far worse this time though.

Meep, how odd that you were told off for getting your baby to feed by yourself - at my hospital I think they'd have just been so glad not to be buzzed Actually, immediately post-cs was the only time my 2 ever fed well. Both times made me think "brilliant, we'll be able to do it!" only to have them never feed properly again.

This thread rang so many chords with me: the guilt, desperately wanting people to know I'd tried, the reading about how it was the right thing to do (btw, anyone else want to throttle Charlotte Church for her comments right now?) and how I was condemning my child to idiocy, asthma, eczema, hayfever and obesity and hating myself for not trying more. The last one has been worse the longer time goes on - surely I could have fought a bit harder? But actually, I could have fought a bit harder but not much. Some people are able to do it easily. Some can do it with time. Some can't at all. Forgiving yourself is the hardest bit.

What doesn't help is the assumption that given the facts we will somehow all bf. I knew "how" to do it. I knew why. No one had told my jaundiced, sleeping, arm flailing baby though. I didn't stop in the face of all the facts but because I didn't have the support. When it takes 2 people to get a decent latch, you're out of your mind with tiredness and shock, what are you supposed to do? The Department of Health can recommend bf for 6 months all it likes but they're not there when your child is throwing up your blood at 2 a.m. Or when the bf counsellor won't come out to you. Or when the midwives all tell you you're doing fine (we weren't).

I guess I haven't forgiven myself yet. I'm terrified of having another baby and failing again. But it gets easier. DD, incidentally, is well, happy, a bit chubby and absolutely the most gorgeous person on earth. That helps. It also helps to know I'm not alone.

Sorry, long rant, issues to resolve! BTW, what actually constitutes successful bf? A day, a week, a month, a year? Tricky one...

and if there were real resources in hospitals and aftercare and things were changed, then the balance would tip and people would see ffing for what it is, a bloody brilliant lifesaving tool for when bfing doesn't work out. no shame there, but none of can help how we feel.

i certainly felt a lot better when weaning started as i felt like i was back on a normal journey, but recently dd has got old enough to really play with her dollies and the sight of her automatically feeding the baby doll with a bottle is oddly upsetting for me. i've really tried to tell her that milk used to come out of my breasts and to encourage her to look at friends bfing, and i have recently seen her sticking her baby up her jumper 'like vincent's mum does' which is GREAT but also a bit weird for me as it rather underlines the fact that i'll be useless at helping her if she ever does want to bf her own children. ach, i'm rambling now... but yes, tinkjon, it would appear that i'm not quite over it.

You bloody won't be useless at helping her, Aitch.

After all you've been through and everything you now know, she couldn't be in better hands.

So there, missus.

yes, but it's not the same as having done it myself, iykwim? but thanks though, that was kind of you vlc.

Aitch, on my course there are childless women and so is my boss, it doesn't stop them being able to help new mums. It's far better to have someone who didn't BF but is supportive than to have (you see it around MN everyday) a MIL or mother that tells you horror stories or tries to put you off.

You'll make sure that she gets all the help she needs, because you won't want her to miss out so you'll nag her HCPs! You'll tell her how brilliant she's doing when she's not sure if it's going well. So what if you won't know what to look for? You'll have read all the books and be comparing the pictures! But you know what? It's all far more helpful than a lot of women on here get.

Blueydragon - I would term successful bf as when the mother has bf for an unspecified amount of time and she and/or baby is comfortable/happy with stopping (for whatever reason). I have seen posts on MN where there has been some implied criticism of women who have 'only' bf for 3 days, weeks, months, whatever. This only contributes to the pressure of women setting themselves certain 'targets' which they then feel that they have 'failed' at if they don't reach that time. For each mother and baby who have bf their bf story will be different and content to stop at different times. I don't know anyone in RL who have identical bf histories.

Pixie - I emailed you and it bounced. Have tried again.

tiktok- because there are underscores in the email addy the board software messed it up. My email is heather underscore tai underscore isaf at yahoo dot co dot uk

I know - I sent it to the correct address and it still bounced.

you could leave it as a comment on the blog if you want as i moderate all comments anyway

BlueyDragon, that's so right about the midwives tell you you're doing fine when you know you aren't - that really bugged me too!!!

I no longer feel guilty that I couldn't but do often wonder what it would have been like.. DD couldn't latch on and I couldn't even express (not a drop) so after 3 days I gave up... (have inverted nipples which didn't help, but I even went to breast feeding classes beforehand and was told that it wouldn;t be a problem - well it was..

I think it is made worse by the fact that I ended up with a General Anth CS so don't feel that I gave birth or breastfeed DD!...

But as I said, I don't feel guilty and when I look at DD (now 4.4) I know that I have done my best for her since...

Tinkjon - Ds1 was bf for 10 days, it tore me up when I switched to ff (as I really felt a failure) so with ds2 was determined to bf once I realised that it was possible to have a section and bf successfully afterwards.

From birth to 8 wks it was MN that kept me going (with the odd call to a BF line) then when I was physically able to I made it to a BF support group in tears because I felt not very a good breastfeeder and the support I got there was good, though emotionally I was in turmoil and a month ago I decided after much thought I decided to wind down on the bfeeding because though I was following advice I still was in turmoil, so I mix fed for a few weeks and now it's ff and expressing, so ds2 has one bottle of bf in the day until the milk dwindles.

Mentally I feel heaps better, though there is a part of me that will always be sad if I think about it too much because this time I did get bfeeding established but once there I was still pretty second rate at it.
It got to the point where I wrote down my problems for the bf counsellor because I couldn't face crying as I spoke about it (no idea if she did read her mail in the end) but anwyay, the way I look at it now is that I did what I could,the boys need a mummy not a broken crying sap (having pnd hasn't helped)and made me feel worse hearing that often mothers who have pnd feel that bfeeding is something they can do that makes them feel ok (complete opposite for me and I felt terribly guilty about it) anyway feel like I am armed with lots more knowledge etc so can always be an ear or try help friends/family if they need support in the future.
I also try hard to think of the bigger picture, e.g immunisations have importance to me, good food when he starts weaning, discipline when he is older, and tons of love and security etc.

I completely relate though.

Aitch - my mum BF me to 12 months (unusual in 1974) and my brother for 6 months. But she was hopeless when it came to my BF problems as she had never experienced any difficulties herself. You might find that you have a bit more empathy should the situation arise

I am very anxious because I failed to BF my DS despite thinking it was the normal thing to do, despite having read up about it before, and despite having loads of help (later on though). And now I am pregnant with DC2 and I can't help thinking what if it just because I am so stupid and clumsy? I am a bit ham fisted at times and maybe that won't change this time round? But I am going to approach this birth and first few days so differently. NO fecker is going to take my baby away to weigh, poke and dress. NOBODY is going to grab my baby or my breasts and try and force the two together. NOBODY is going to be able to give me crap, outdated, bollocky advice because this time I am armed with lots of information and the might of the LLL behind me

Martha, I had none of the problems associated with BF after a c/section. I was worried about it beforehand (I knew I was having a cs) but I didn't find it a problem at all - I never found it painful to BF in any of the normal positions and it never hurt my wound at all. The only problem I found was that milk often takes a little longer to come in after a cs. I think I'm not so sad about not BF DD because she had to be given some special fluid thingy at birth (I was diabetic and she had very low blood sugar) so there was no choice about delaying the first foreign protein because it happened at birth anyway. Also I expressed almost every feed for her for about 2 months so I know she got a good whack if my milk anyway. But that wasn't an option second time around when I already had DD to look after (unless you've been there, you would not believe the amount of time it takes washing and sterilising and expressing a whole day's worth of feeds when you can only get about an oz every hour!)
Aitch, I agree about you being a tremendous help to your DD! Don't be down on yourself Besides, they're all going to ignore our advice later like we do with our mums and MILs

LOL, you GO GIRL!. the very best of luck to you, PL.

oh, and thanks tinkjon. i do hope so. my mum never had any problems and was fairly unusual in the 70s for bfing but she was also v quick to come out with 'it doesn't matter'. which IT DOES.

tiktok- thanks for the comments- they make total sense. 8lb 8oz to 7lb 9oz was much more than a 10% drop and something should have been picked up sooner

i did have skin to skin with her after birth but she slept most of the next 24 hrs although i did feed her. Lack of help at home and dealing with a toddler so i couldn't just sit with baby probably exacabated things if its like you say (which I am inclined to agree with you when i think back to her feeding)

Thank you for the comment

Glad to help, Pixie.

The point is that you do not need to feel 'inadequate' or a 'failure' - none of this was your fault at all. We'll never know whether better help would have overcome your difficulties, but it looks that way once you get down to the details, and all you needed was minimum care - basic stuff, that's not controversial or arcane knowledge that only a few gurus can have!

I come across many instances of unhappy breastfeeding that can be tracked back to the early days. I hate it when mothers are clearly at risk - as you were, with a baby who'd lost a lot of weight and with a toddler to care for which meant you had less time to sit and feed, feed, feed - and they are told everything is fine and just to carry on.

And then it's the mothers who feel crap when things go pear shaped

BTW, Pixie and I are talking about my comments on her blog - just to confuse everyone

Tiktok- I've spoken to my lactation consultant and she agrees in part with you although she also mentioned other things that have occured to her for various reasons but mainly because my lactation problems haven't rectified and I am still running on half power so to speak.

Your observations have actually made me feel better though as I know that it wasn't totally my fault so to speak

Pixie, I have read your blog again and you are awesome - not just for sticking with the whole thing but by being so determined to try anything (I mean, those nursing supplementers are a PITA....). I now note you were anaemic (as a result of your underlying blood condition) - this can deffo have an effect on milk supply.

Glad I made you feel better. You know in your head nothing was your fault...as time goes on, you'll feel it in your heart, too.

tiktok- I'm not awesome- in my mind I just had no choice

Pixie - I think you are awesome. I feel very strongly about bf now but I don't know if I would have had the strength and determination to carry on with things the way you have.

You're an inspiration to me, and make me even more determined to carry on bf for as long as I can / DS is interested! (16 weeks and counting - and on our first noticeable growth spurt!)

ChairmumMiaow- i am not awesome at all- like i said to tiktok i just had no choice

tiktok, I'm so glad you've said that anaemia can affect milk supply. We kept telling everyone at the hospital when dd was being subjected to endless tests as she was consistenly losing weight that I was really anaemic and noone seemed to think it was relevant. Finally we found a fantastic bf counsellor who is giving us tons of support and believes that the anaemia was probably the cause of our problems. If only I'd known!!

Pixie, I know what you mean about having no choice - I feel just the same and without describing my problems with bf here (which were considerable, but not in the same category of difficulty that you experienced), I felt very strongly that I had no choice but to breastfeed, almost at any price. It's why I am sad for mothers who experienced something of this non-negotiable 'pull' and end up giving formula - they can be very hurt and angry, as this thread shows.

Not everyone feels as strongly as this, of course.

I think I was awesome, now, and I think you were even more awesome I think there are a lot of awesome mothers!

It is awesome to feel something strongly on behalf of another human being and to fight and struggle for it, and then to have the insight you did, to talk about it on your blog (which I note has many more hits on it now!)

Pixie's ourbreastfeedingstory.blogspot.com/blog is worth a read.

is a discussion on the way anaemia can affect breastfeeding.

This is, IMO, one of the reasons why every mother and baby should stay very close after the birth and throughout the early days (at least) - because that helps combat some of the circumstances we can't control, like anaemia, like the sort of birth she had, like relatives and others undermining her etc etc etc.

Bad link. Here it is:
www.mobimotherhood.org/MM/article-anemia.aspx

my blog is here

i am so glad i posted on this thread now. thank you for starting it OP.

tiktok- thank you for all your words and help- i had started to think it was one of those things and that my body had let me down. Now i realise that might not be the case and that there were things that could have been done that may have changed things. had i got to sharon sooner then things might not have got so bad, had i had more rest, another blood transfusion.... the list goes on and on BUT the main thing to me is that it wasn't nescessarily my body totally to blame- not that i blame anyone but i hope you see where i'm coming from.

thank you tiktok xx

Pixie

I still struggle with it at times tbh. Ds was in SCBU, needed feeding every hour down a tube. Felt so awful with that, decided not to bf dd (couldn't go through those guilt feelings again).

However, it is now 2 years ago, and even though I do struggle at times with the guilt, it is more todo with a loss of expectation and not able to do something as natural as b/f is.

However, I have also had much support on here from those in the know.

I'm slowly getting there, but even writing this is making me feel crap.

Hi only just seen the thread but thought i would join in.

I too, feel a failure, I stopped after a mere 3 1/2 weeks mainly because it was getting me down and I thought I couldnt go out and have a bit of a life. Obviously you dont have much of a life after having a baby but you know what I mean!

I still get very guilty about it, but moving my dd paved the way for her to sleep through. I admire those women who don't give up and you really don't know how much hard work it is till you do it.

It didn't help that I had an elective c section so really wasn't physically up to it and PND was getting a hold of me.

I doubt this helps but thought I would share anyway!

I don't want to be drummed out of town for this, because I excl bf babycarrot for 6 months. But I don't mean to be insensitive. I struggle hugely with how inadequately I managed to nourish my dd.

She barely gained any weight, and weighed less than 10lb at 6 months old. She gained only 3lb in the entire 6 months. Her weight gain on bm started on the low side of normal, but over the weeks it slowed to almost a halt, and I tried to tell myself it was 'normal' for her.

However her rate of weight gain has increased ridiculously now she's on solids, and as the paediatrician put it to me today "something wasn't quite right, was it?"

I sometimes really resent my poor little boobs because they failed her. And even though she's fine now, I just can't let it go. I NEED to understand what went wrong, because I tried so hard to make things better. And yet I still don't understand it, so I worry that if I ever have another baby, the same gutwrenching experience awaits me. And since I too have this 'at any price' mentality I know I would still make the same decisions and fight the same battles.

<squeeze> vlc...

vlc, I can't remember all your story and what happened at the beginning - which can set the scene for future bf - but lots of things are not 'quite right' with children, and you got the substance ie what went into her! right, by bf.

If you have a look at Pixie's blog and the musings I made on it about why things were v. difficult for her, there may be some aspects of her experience that resonate with you.

does the guilt over not bf'ing enough/not at all etc ever go away i wonder or do we just transfer that guilt on to something else.....