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I've just been reading through some very interesting and amusing old threads about mothers who don't breastfeed (started by Milkgoddess)
A couple of times 'the ignorance about the risks of formula feeding' was mentioned - the word 'risks' is a little worrying. Not sure whether it was just emotive language from a staunch pro breastfeeder, or there are real serious risks
If it's the immunity building/correct nutrients issue, then in my experience - I was BF and I had asthma, eczema and sinus problems as a kid. I BF my DD for 4 months and she developed terrible eczema due to an egg allergy. My DH and his siblings never had a drop of breast milk on their lips and they are all strapping healthy beings.
Thanks - just really want to make sure that not breastfeeding this time round is definitely the right decision for an already knackered mum
if it feels right to you to FF, then do it. happy mum, i say.
FWIW, i was FF and have nothing 'wrong', same with both ds's. I am BF-ing dd now, (my third)and i actually really enjoy it. it doesnt make me more tired, and i enjoy the time to sit with her and feel close.
catyspug, good question But quantifying risk for an individual person is impossible. So no one can say that if you ff, your baby will experience x, y or z, or that because you were breastfed, you should not have experienced a, b or c.
Here are some hints of sorting it out in your head:
- every 'benefit' of breastfeeding is actually a 'risk' of formula feeding. So if bf babies get x per cent less diarrhoea/gastroenteritis/ear infection or whatever else, the stat is really that ff babies are at increased risk of this (and the percentage risk is not the same as the percentage benefit...this is a maths thing that I can't explain, sorry, 'cos I can't get it straight for myself!
- ff babies are more likely to spend time in hospital in the first months of life, and partial formula feeding (that is, partial breastfeeding) has a partial effect - more ff = more hospitalisation. There is a lot of research confirming this, in the UK and elswhere
- all good studies control for social and other factors, so it is the method of feeding that is compared, not the backgrounds or the family of the babies concerned
- 'serious' risks are not quantifiable and may be multi-factorial. I mean, cot death is a serious risk, but it is rare. Ff increases the risk of cot death - but it is not the only factor. The same applies to childhood cancer and breast cancer in the mother - serious conditions increased by the use of formula, but ff is not the only factor
- 'minor' illness increases with formula feeding, but these minor illnesses are not life-threatening in the UK and babies normally make a total recovery (though that's not to downplay the misery of, say, an ear infection which can be painful and recurrent)
- some so-called 'benefits' of breastfeeding are reduced if the breastfeeding does not last for long, or if it is only partial breastfeeding. For instance, someone might say a baby was breastfed, but in reality, the baby was breastfed for a few months only, and formula was used alongside the breastfeeding. This introduces an increased risk. The less formula, the better
- no one can say with any certainty that ff has had no effect on them or an individual baby; maybe the lack of a few IQ points might have made a difference, maybe a health effect has yet to appear (say, with breast cancer, which increases if you were ff yourself) as infant feeding can have life-long effects
None of this is, I hope, scare-mongering. I believe parents should be trusted with as much information as they need. People on the whole can understand that what they see around them or observe from direct experience is not the same as research which looks at many. many people longer-term. Our own experience is powerful, but in research terms, it is only one very small sample!
Just to add, catyspug, the asthma and eczema points you raise are ones where there is not much truly robust evidence linking protection from them with bf, because it is so difficult to study large groups of exclusively breastfed babies...and if there is protection, then it is probably dependent on excl bf. We really don't know, though.
Thanks Tiktok I didn't realise there was so much more to it.
I was wondering why I knew quite a few people and kids who had been BF and who seemed quite sickly with allergies and the like - plus two little boys I know who have terrible recurrent ear infections - all were exclusively breastfed - I wondered whether although Breastmilk is natural and right and obviously superior to 'packet food' formula, it wasn't the liquid gold it was bandied about to be and what's in your genes is in your genes, no matter what you eat or drink - kind of like the hereditory cancers and other diseases.
I did really enjoy BF my DD once all the problems with it had stopped, but when I stopped I realised I preferred not BF. I definitely felt an increase in energy - not being my babies sole source of food - I looked better and enjoyed having a break from her now and again.
But my life is in a very different place now to what is was when I only had her. It's only yesterday that I finally made up my mind - I've had a terrible pregnancy, so unenjoyable it's put me off being pregnant again which is something I thought I would never think - I've really neglected my 2.5yo in these last few weeks because of all the illnesses and exhaustion and I want my energy back up quickly. I honestly think cracked nipples, mastitis and low energy would send me into depression (I have not much support from family and DH is tied to his work for the foreseeable future)
I am not sure how to respond, catyspug - anyone who tries to convince someone that their baby will never get ill if they breastfeed is clearly delusional and I have never come across anyone like this! I hear the phrase 'liquid gold' and I don't think it means 'babies won't ever get ill', but rather that it admires the way the human body produces the exactly appropriate food for the young of our species
The little boys you knew who had recurrent ear infections might have been a lot worse if they had been formula fed, who knows? The evidence linking formula to ear infection is pretty strong, and not controversial. It is also 'dose related' - the more formula, the more ear infections (and the more breastfeeding, the fewer).
Breastfeeding doesn't have to be painful, and it doesn't have to go on longer than you can bear it, so it is not something you have to decide on now if you don't want to.
There is no doubt about it, though, that formula feeding puts babies at risk of a number of conditions, and the effect of these is not known. However, most babies grow adequately on formula and do not become seriously ill, and for some mothers, using formula is a more 'comfortable' option, especially if they have had a poor experience with breastfeeding. Avoiding postnatal depression is really important, too.
Support from the family certainly helps with breastfeeding, and without this, it can be more difficult to do.
"anyone who tries to convince someone that their baby will never get ill if they breastfeed is clearly delusional"
Yes - I've not heard anyone say that breastfeeding is a guarantee of good health. But I've heard many people report having heard someone say it or imply it.
I have previously mentioned the risks and so if it was me then I will try to explain risks in objective rather than emotive way.
A history of allergies/excema often runs in families and I understood that breastfeeding protected against allergies DURING the weaning period when you are introducing the new foods whereas you would have stopped before weaning or just as weaning is about to start.
I am reading a book called Sucessful Breastfeeding by the Royal College of Midwives. It is very informative. In brief the issues around formula feeding are:
Composition, Formula is composed differently, Formula has less calories, more protein, less fat and varying levels of carbohydrate. Higer levels of protein in formula have been linked to increased allergies and a 1.5 - 2% increased risk of developing insulin dependent diabetes. There are also vitamins, minernals and other trace elements available in breastmilk which are unavailable in formula milk. For example 70% of available Iron is absorbed in breastmilk but only 10% in formula.
Errors in manufacture and preparation leading to bacteria or other contamination.
Controlling intake, Breastfed babies can control their intake whereas mothers control bottlefeeding.
Protection against viral, parasitic and bacterial pathogens.
Breastmilk has loads of enzymes, anti-iflammatory agents and growth factors not present in formula.
Bottle feeding has been associated with:-
Increased risk of
gastrointestinal problem(5 times more commom) respiratory problems ear infections (3-5 times more common) urinary infections, necrotising entercolitis, atopic disease in families with a history increased risk of SIDS and diabetes reduced cognitive development decreased visual acuity reduced IQ
....for babies
For mums the risk of not breastfeeding means more than doubling the risk of osteoportic hip fracture and increased risk of breastcancer.
Also while a baby feeds for 6 feeds per day your periods are unlikely to return and therefore a woman is more likely to conserve iron and have free contraception.
In terms of the economics, the costs of the NHS of extra admissions, visits to GP and prescriptions has been quantified, if 300 UK towns acheived breastfeeding rates of 90-95% as in Norway or Finland the National Health Service would save £67 million per year.
It's up to you though, risks are risks not certainity, after all we all know some smokers who live to 90 but others who haven't been as lucky!
When we discuss smoking tobacco we don't say that not smoking has benefits, we say that smoking has risks. This is because notsmoking is the Biological Norm, smoking is the artificial influence that impacts on health.
As such, breastfeeding is the Biological Norm, and not breastfeeding (using formula) is the artificial influence. So, breastfeeding imparts nobenefits, it gives babies (and mothers) optimal health in respect of thier own genetic predisposition. To not breastfeed (use formula) reduces the possible health and development of the baby and mother.
So, breastfeeding does not reduce your risk of developing breast cancer, not breastfeeding increases it. Breastfeeding doesn't protect your baby, not breastfeeding leaves them without the protection that nature has designed them to get.
Yes, when the issue of formula feeding is explained in economic terms, it puts a whole different perspective on things. I'm sorry I haven't a link but it's in a book called Sucessful Breastfeeding published by the Royal College of Midwives.
Thanks everyone for all the really informative replies and for posting the interesting article.
When I originally asked what the risks of FF were I was kinda hoping for responses of the 'nothing, don't worry - you just do what you want' flavour so that my conscience wouldn't be too irked! This is all extremely guilt inducing and really does make you feel like you're opting to feed your new baby poison if you don't want to breastfeed.
If only the other option to breastfeeding was just as good
I don't know what to do. When I finally decided this week I wasn't going to BF this time round I felt liberated. (not BF hadn't really been an option up to this point)
It has really been a horrendous pregnancy that I just want OVER (6 weeks to go and counting), we don't have ANY support this time and I am also in sole charge of a 2.5yr old, at weekends as well as all week mostly due to my DH having his own business.
I had a hard time with mastitis and cracked nipples the first time before finally getting the hang of it and enjoying it, but it did make me feel lacking in energy until I stopped and I must admit, stopping after 4 months made me feel liberated. I'm not as healthy this time as I was the first time round and feel like the baby would be sucking out all my remaining life force!
I'm now thinking of doing the colostrum and then seeing how I feel....but sadly, I know deep down that I would really like not to as well.
catsypug - I hope you don't mind me saying this, but do you think the tiredness you felt with breastfeeding last time, and that you are anticipating again this time might be more a mental than a physical thing? I think one of the emotionally hardest things about breastfeeding is the sense that your baby is solely reliant on you. I've heard so many people describe having a sense of 'space' when they stopped breastfeeding. I'm wondering if there would be any other way of you finding that sense of space as a mum while breastfeeding? What is your situation at home? Do you have help? Can you have any time for yourself? What about expressing? Have you had any success with that in the past? I studied and/or worked all the way through my pregnancies and picked up the threads very quickly after the births, even after my last baby, who is only 22 months younger than my middle one. Going to tutorials and writing essays gave me head space that stopped me feeling as though my whole life was just being a lactating mum - it gave me psychological space that was really valuable(not physical space as I took my baby with me to tutorials). I'm sure other mums here have their own ways of finding that sense of freedom that keeps them going through those intense, early weeks with their baby.
Hope you don't mind me putting this thought forward.....
catyspug, no one can 'make' you feel anything. No one has said you are opting to feed your baby 'poison' and it is not up to anyone here to say 'feel good' or 'feel bad' or 'feel anything' about your choices....the responsibility rests with you to do what you feel is best, and it's no one's business to comment on your choice (unless you actually invite them to do so - and even then, I'd hold back because when people ask for comments they don't always really and truly want 'em!).
The health effects of infant feeding are only one factor in this choice - you asked about the health risks of formula and they were shared with you. Clearly, this was a factor that weighed with you, as you asked about it.
Facing up to making choices that other people voice their disapproval of - whatever they are - is part of being a grown up person. Sounds as if you breastfeed, you will face the disapproval of some of your family, or at least their lack of support. If you formula feed, you won't feel that from your family, but there may be an 'inner voice' disapproving of it - I don't think you will get any disapproval from anywhere else.
So it has to be up to you, to 'own' your choice and to 'own' your feelings
Yeah you're right - it isn't anybody elses responsibility to make the choice but me.
The initial elation I felt this week at making my no-BF choice has quickly been replaced with heavy guilt and worry.
My situation is not one of disapproval or approval from family - it's one of having no family around me at all to help. Parents have just retired to Spain and I barely see them. In-laws are in Scotland. My DH isn't around - he has his own company and it's a full time commitment at the moment so we don't see him from early morning to late at night and not at weekends either. Just moved to new area so no close friends nearby. My DD is only at nursery from 1-3pm, 3 days a week. We don't have the money to pay for support.
I've been in and out of hospital throughout this pregnancy with bronchitus, sinusitus, suspected blood clots on the brain - I now have SPD and anaemia and I'm just totally fed up! I think what you've said about 'space' Sabire is totally what I'm feeling. I suppose at the moment I'm feeling like I want that distance and freedom asap and not bf would give me this.
But, it's also been a while and I suppose there is a lot of detail I have forgotten - maybe because of how my health has been recently I am making BF out to be much worse than it actually is
I guess I need to see how I feel at the birth I think
Yep - keeping an open mind is good. You don't have to decide now
Bf support does not cost anything.
With a dh so off the scene and no family support, bottle feeding could be harder work than you think....once bf gets going and working well, it is less of an 'imposition' than formula feeding, which needs preparation, shopping, cleaning and sterilising.
catsypug - I feel for you. I've been ill with some sort of liver problem since January and I've had sinusitis on and off for months so I know how low it brings you. Sinusitis sounds so trivial to other people but it really grinds you down when it goes on and on. I actually stopped bf my toddler in January because I was on my knees with exhaustion (wish I hadn't now tbh as it didn't really make much difference physically). I think health problems can make you so depressed - you lose confidence in your ability to cope with the normal day to day things involved in being a mum.
Do you have a decent GP? I think you need to see your doctor and talk about what you can do to improve your general health. Maybe some physio for the SPD and a referral for your sinusitis. How good is your diet? Have you tried Spatone or Floradix for your anaemia? I'm also wondering whether you might be suffering from antenatal depression - it would be completely understandable given your worries about your health, your lack of family support and the fact that you're spending so much time parenting along because your dp is out of the house so much. Perhaps you could talk to your hv and see about getting in touch with some other mums locally who could provide some moral support after the birth? Would the suggestion that you contact your local branch of the NCT give you an attack of the horrors? I know it's not for everyone but some people find the support they get through it fantastic.
Anyway - hugs to you - hope you feel better in yourself soon. I'm sure that once you feel physically stronger things will fall into place.
Catsypug - I had SPD and it must be very difficult trying to pick up or run after a toddler with SPD. The great news is that it does go quite quickly after the birth, mine felt better as soon as my waters broke. I had no support and a hubby with depression who was trying to set up a business when I gave birth so also sympathise with that aswell. I didn't know about them then but there is a charity called Homestart, they have volunteers who can offer practical help, google them, and give them a call.
The first four months were difficult but then everything suddenly got much easier so I wonder if that happened with you and then you linked everything being easier to bottlefeeding?? Perhaps not but breastfeeding itself does get easier after about that time so you got the problems but not the joys if you like so have been left with a negative perception.
Floridix is really good but also delaying your periods by breastfeeding will help your anaemia.
I think Sabire's point about having some space is really important. I found b/feeding first baby hard work for a lot of reasons. With second one,I had a 3 year old, my dh went abroad when baby was 3 weeks old (only returing for a week every six weeks)and I was moving house.
I'm not trying to say i was so great for managing but I did find it so much easier second time around. I had to express once a day from baby being 1 week old to get on with moving house and to see a physio regularly as I had a very bad shoulder and back.
Oddly, these two things did seem to give me some space of the sort Sabire mentions which was good as I am not a person who can sit on a sofa for hours on end. I just wantto get on with stuff. (I had five people around for dinner about 10 days after he was born!)_
cats, i suffer from antenatal depression. this is my third time round, so i know where you are coming from.
regardless of your decision - i was on the fence myself with this one, no.3, because i'm in the same boat, but will give BF a go for at least the fortnight that DH is home and off on leave and then take it from there - please see your GP or midwife with your concerns.
i had dreadful sinusitis with DD2 AND awful acid reflux. between the two, i was waking up once an hour, when i was able to fall into sleep at all, often with full blown panic attacks from choking on my own acid or my sinuses clogging up, not to mention having to try to sleep in a recliner.
i also had terrible anaemia and even Spatone gave me diarrhoea. i couldn't take hte prescribed tablets at all.
i was SO exhausted when i went into labour with DD2. i worked full time until a few days before i had her.
i know where you're coming from!
i gave it a bash, however, and she was so much easier to feed than DD1. she took to it really well, although she did chew my nipple from bad latch, a kind NCT counsellor spent the night at our place and helped me get her on at every feed all night.
she saved it for us. and although i had to go back to work when DD2 was 4 months, we did BF successfully till then, whereas without just that one night of help, i almost certainly would have thrown in the towel.
getting treated for AND and PND made all the difference for me.
please see your GP with your concerns about how you are feeling.
how about just thinking along hte lines of, if you decide to try, that is, 'i'll just do it today and see how it goes'?
Cats, let's put this into some perspective. I'm the youngest of four. My older brother and oldest sister were BF. My youngest sister and I were FF. There is nothing to choose between the four of us in terms of health or intellectual ability except that my BF sister is the only asthmatic in the family. Oh and the fact that I'm 6'5" (obviously really cracking formula back in the 60s).
I realise that this will seem very simplistic to some but this is an incredibly emotive issue and, whilst I have no doubt that BF is very beneficial, it is worth bearing in mind that millions of people have been exclusively FF with no ill effects whatsoever.
With our 2 DDs my DW BF DD1 four four weeks until we simply had to give in and supplement her diet with formula. She was simply too rubbish at BF and was losing dramatic amounts of weight. She took to it immediately and all three of us cheered up as a result of which we now have a strong, healthy, happy 3yo.
If you can BF even a bit it's probably a good plan. If not then for God's sake don't beat yourself up about it (and don't let anyone else have a dig at you either.)
"it is worth bearing in mind that millions of people have been exclusively FF with no ill effects whatsoever"
Yes - it does seem a bit simplistic.
How a baby is fed DOES impact on their health and development in all sorts of subtle ways that are impossible for us as individuals to quantify. We know this is true, which is why we try to give your children an optimal diet in later childhood, despite the fact that the majority of children who have suboptimal diets in the UK don't show any discernable damage associated with it. Why should we treat infant feeding differently?
And, speaking as a woman, if I hadn't been able to breastfeed, while I wouldn't 'beat myself up' about it, I would have felt very sad and disappointed - and that's ok. Aren't we allowed to feel a sense of loss about not being able to succeed with a basic biological function that's an intrinsic part of the experience of motherhood for most people? Other people telling us that it doesn't matter, because it doesn't make any difference to our babies anyway, and that therefore we should feel 'fine' about it is neither here not there.
catsypug - have you thought of hiring a doula? I don't know whether this is an option for you financially, but a postnatal doula is someone who can help you with feeding (whether formula, breast), help you look after your toddler, look after the house, and most importantly look after you and make sure that you're being nurtured! You can find more out about them here
WRT to breastfeeding - have you thought about just breastfeeding for the first few days so he/she gets the colostrum and then moving onto formula either partially or fully. Or just taking it day by day and see how you feel?
Hi everyone - thanks all so much for your replies and advice. I've been giving this a lot of thought yesterday. Been very teary and upset. I didn't realise after telling myself it would be 'ok' not to BF that the guilt would then weigh so heavily on me.
Spoke to DH about it last night and have decided that I am going to start BF and see how I go on .
I guess I had been thinking that I would want to do the colostrum at least, but what would be the point of going through the first week/ 2 weeks of 'razor blades through the nipples' agony to then stop? Why bother starting? But how could I BF one child and not the other and it just doesn't sit right with me to deny baby 2 when I am physically perfectly capable of feeding.
I've read here a few times that it can be easier second time round. I'm already going to be knackered from labour and little sleep anyway - bottle feeding isn't going to make that any better.
And also, once through the pain barrier it probably is going to be the much easier 'and cheaper' option. Someone mentioned speaking to my Dr about getting my health and energy back up - maybe it's a full time iron supplement to go along with BF?
I do think I've been feeling depressed and fed up this week, demonising BF in my mind as the perfect way to just 'finish me off' and choosing not to do it seemed like the perfect solution to detach me from all of this ill-health. But thinking more clearly now, I don't see the real achievements there either.
In my experience it was much much easier feeding my 2nd and 3rd child than it was feeding the first. I dont know how I managed to carry on feeding my first child, I think that at times it was only the guilt that kept me going, but the second time was a completely different experience. Even if you do feel that you need to stop after a week or two then your baby will have benefitted from the period of breastfeeding they had. Good luck.
catsypug - I really recommend you contact a local bf counsellor NOW and ask about bf support groups locally. Do you have a bf cafe near you? I think it would really help you to make contact with those people locally who can help you, so you can get things sorted really quickly if you run into difficulties in the first week or so.
But - would also want to reiterate what littlepinkpixie says: honestly bf doesn't ALWAYS hurt. I was in agony with my first (shredded, bleeding, scabby nipples) because we didn't know what we were doing. Second and third time around I had NO PAIN at all.
You sound like you have a good plan and an open mind, catyspug, and mumsnet is here for you when the time comes
fabsmum - good post earlier today. I don't think it helps when people tell other people what to feel, and not to feel bad....I'm sure the intention is good, but people have a right to feel conflicted about feeding; to say, in effect, 'it doesn't really matter' is to deny the depth of their feelings and to trivialise them.
oh, catsy! i had the same thing with DD2. she shredded my left nipple in hospital. i thought, 'here we go again!'
a midwife came and looked at these three huge blood blisters and said, 'oh, that looks sore.'
what was really needed was a BF counsellor.
it made so much of a difference, just that one time, just learning a few techniques.
i even was able to feed DD2 off that breast when it was healing and it didn't hurt!
my counsellor gave me such wise words, 'if it's still hurting after 10-15 seconds, break the suction and try again,' and some other tips, like swaddling DD2 and giving her a finger to suck to calm her a bit if she got too upset - it's often hard for a fiercely upset baby to open her mouth wide enough to latch properly.
just play it by ear.
but DO speak to your GP about your feelings AND line up some proper BF support for after you leave hospital.
Good for you Catsypug, I would only add to the great advice that others have already given is to ask around if there's a breastfeeding cafe or group with peer counsellors near to you. This will give you somewhere to go with both your children and provide you with some moral support aswell.
The Floridix that someone mentioned earlier can be taken when pregnant and nursing so you could definately try that to get your energy levels up.
If you want to FF then do it, I was FF as my mum was on anti-biotics and couldn't breasfeed and I am healthy, no allergies etc etc. I had exzema when I was little but completely gone now.
Alot of people say there are risks for not BF but I think there are risks for BF, such as tired, naggy mum etc.
Lucky, of course everyone has to do what they need to do...their choice
'A lot of people say there are risks for not bf'????? This understates it! It's not 'a lot of people saying', it's a considerable body of research literature confirming it.
What you 'think' does not compare with this - and while all mothers can be tired and naggy at times, to put this next to the risks of not bf would mean comparing studies which show bf mothers are morelikely to be tired and naggy...and I don't think you have any evidence for that!
(Individually, of course individual mothers will feel tired and naggy and feel bf has something to do with it, and similarly, individual mothers may feel the same way and blame ff....)
Blimey - I was browsing on here to find out if anybody else was having doubts / questions about bf their second child - didn't expect to find all this!
I have a two and a half year DS and I bf him for 3 weeks. However, straight after birth I was informed by a midwife that the reason he wasn't feeding (and didn't for 2 days) was because 'sometimes babies don't need to feed in the very early days'. I'm still unsure if this is actually fact but if it isn't true, what about the babies that feed within an hour of being bron straight onto mum's tummy? My little man was whisked away and wrapped in a blanket and put in his little crib, while I had my 'emroidery' done!!
When he did start to feed it was fine until my milk 'came in' and I was faced with the impossibility of trying to find the 'valve' in two massively overinflated footballs and he would consistently 'slip off', causing agony for me and hunger for him. I suppose I was unable to 'replenish' the small amount of milk he had drained from me in the very short space of time it took for him to decide he was hungry again! He would demand a feed (or so I thought - I was a first time mum after all!) about every half an hour and to top it all off, I was an emotional wreck! I was fortunate enough not to have suffered from PND but I definately had the baby blues and I really don't think my breastfeeding difficulties helped with this. I couldn't even give him a cuddle without him crying to be fed. Add sleep deprivation to this and it made for an unhappy family all round!!
Des[pite a fantastic labour and birth and a lovely midwife, I asked to speak to a BF counsellor at Hospital (hours after he was born) but by the time I left the following day, nobody had been to see me. I sought advice from midwives and health visitors, only for them to give me flimsy advice such as either 'do what you feel is right' (!!) or for them to grab my breast and shove DS's head on, without giving me advice on how to do it / positioning etc. I was also told that I shouldn't express until DS1 was 5-6 weeks old. Again, I don't know if this is true or not. After he went to ff, I was advised by HV almost immediately to put him onto C&G hungrier babymilk - I wonder if this had anything to do with his seemingly 'milk-barren' early days??! He put weight on well after that and actually became quite a chubby baby for a while, which was good!
So, now I find myself 5 days (in theory) from giving birth to my 2nd child and I'm torn between bf and ff. Although I cried with grief (for the last breastfeed) and elation (at the relief of ff) my life changed unrecognisably the day I switched to ff with my DS1 and although bf is the 'right' thing to do on a health level, ff made things so much more manageable. It really isn't so much the 'convenience' factor - I really don't know if I can face the trauma that bf seemed to cause me plus the added extra of having a two and a half year old running about.
As you can imagine, I've researched quite a bit about it since but I suppose if I'm honest I am about 90% sure that I'd like to just ff from the word go. But maybe I am worrying about bf more than I need to. I think that I found it so difficult before that it doesn't appeal to me anymore. My DH is supportive and assures me that we'll get advice / support because we'll address any problems as soon as they come up. Its just those dark days at the very beginning that I'm worrying about!
Maybe I'll just have to see how I feel after baby is born - but the way I feel about it at the moment, I'm swaying heavily towards going straight to bottle feeding. Surely it's only 'best' for baby if its 'best' for mum too?
spikejack - what truly terrible breastfeeding 'care' you had. Almost everything you report about it is either wrong, confused or unhelpful - and you were really, really unlucky to have such a succession of dim helpers and to be let down in that way. Anyone would understand your wish to avoid a repeat performance...and if the choice is between 'rubbish support for breastfeeding that leaves the mother desperate, in pain and the baby miserable' and formula feeding, then obviously there is no contest.
Fortunately, things should be better this time. For a start you know more. You will know
* not to permit anyone to take your baby from you, and to keep him skin to skin with you (yes, even if you need stitches - why not?) * not to permit the grab and shove method of 'helping' * that sometimes, expressing in the early days can help resolve a problem (there is no rule about waiting to 5-6 weeks) * that there is expert help available with bf, and also you have a choice of a number of volunteer networks you can call on if the NHS fails to produce someone competent * that babies always need to feed in the early days...what was that midwife thinking??
Hope things work out better with this second little one, if you decide to bf.
What an interesting thread...will try and read it all now; I just wanted to say that just because someone was breastfed and still gets conditions like asthma, eczema and alergies doesn't mean to say that if they hadn't been breastfed their conditions might be much worse. To a large extent these conditions are inhereted which is why I was so completely determined to breastfeed my dd for as long as I could to try and at least lessen the chances or the extent that she might get them iyswim?
Thank you for your post. I forgot to add that while I was in the Hospital bed, wondering why mine seemed to be the ONLY newborn awake throughout its WHOLE first night in the World (he didn't sleep a wink!!) a midwife on the ward let me struggle on for hours, having no idea what was 'wrong' with my DS and then, when I asked for help, offered me a bottle of formula and said 'why don't you just try this?'. Fortunately, I had the strength of mind and the adrenaline buzz that seemed to accompany my absence of sleep!) to say that I didn't want to 'give up' so soon, so I persevered (goodness knows how - it was 3am!). Finally they took my DS to their 'midwife station' (makes me think of midwives with blue flashing lights on their heads!) to allow me 2 hours sleep. However, I didn't sleep because I then had the 'I'm a failure at Motherhood - my child has been whipped away from me during his first night in the World' (admittedly I think the delirium was catching up on me by that point - I'm not generally neurotic about these things!). Then they promptly brought him back to me as soon as I awoke / he woke up - can't remember which came first!
Looking back, I feel proud that I managed to continue for 3 weeks in massive and teary discomfort (mine and his!) but it took me a long time to accept the fact that it wasn't 'my fault/failure' that I stopped when I did. I now know (and feel reassured by your reply) that I know more than I did then (even though I had read countless books and articles on bf - just never thought it could be so complex!) and I would ABSOLUTELY ask questions (over and over again if necessary) in order to 'get it right' this time.
So, I'll see how things go after the imminent birth of my second child and I am very keen to try the skin-to-skin delivery as soon as baby is born. I think it will be at this point that my mind will be made up. But I know that either way, I have a perfectly healthy two and a half year old and whether it works or doesn't work this time, I'll be much better informed before I start!
Spikejack, before having DC2 I'd decided to just bf for 2 weeks, due to my experiences with DC1 who I bf for 7 months (his choice, he wouldn't accept a bottle at all!) and undiagnosed pnd. I was off the idea of expressing because my experience with it was using a hand pump.
So with DC2 I had nipple blisters and engorgement pains, breasts so swollen DC couldn't latch on etc, so I used the hospital's electric pump to express. It was so much more comfortable. When I got home, I bought an electric pump and it allowed my nipples to heal. DC2 did NOT get nipple confusion, she can switch from one to the other quite easily, although of course this is just my experience of using teats and boobs at the same time.(Also, if your decision is to either express or ff, you may as well express). It's allowed me to continue giving breast milk to my baby for longer than I had planned and allowed me to have another go at feeding at the breast when I felt ready. The downside is having to be organised about sterilising bottles/pump equipment, and making time to sit down to express and to feed to baby. And the cost of the pump. But now she can feed at the breast without causing huge pains and we can both be relaxed.
Hi Spikejack - good luck with what you decide to do It sounds like you had an absolutely terrible experience first time round.
It's not like the old days now where you're kept in hospital for a week for some R&R while being taught how to do everything like feeding and bathing.
In a way I kind of envy my SIL who never breastfed and never worried about it. The thought never crossed her mind and she felt no guilt over it. And no one challenged her about it either. It was just a flat 'NO' if she was asked if she was BF or not with no excuses or explanations offered. I hasten to add she has a perfectly normal healthy 3 year old now.
catsypug - as someone who's had mostly good time with breastfeeding I feel sorry for women who haven't had a chance to share this special experience with their children . I think they've missed out on something that would have given them and their babies a lot of pleasure, pride and satisfaction. If you'd had really positive experiences of breastfeeding in the past you wouldn't feel the way you do about your SIL. I've got my fingers crossed for you that if you bf this time around you have a much happier time of it - breastfeeding can be beautiful you know, it really can.
Catsypug, where in the world are you, is there anyone here who could give you some support in the early weeks?
As for "all the other stuff" I think you are doing really well, keep an open mind, ASK FOR HELP, not just with bf, but with housework etc too.
I have never met a woman who failed to bf, but I have met lots and lots who were failed by those who should have been helping them! Find a local Baby Cafe or other group and start going as soon as you can, before Bubba2 arrives if you can, and take every day slowly, one at a time, now and after the baby arrives.
Thanks for that FabsMum and GreenMonkies that's really cool reading that.
I'm in West London so I know I will find support - there will be loads of things around. I'm going to speak to my MW this week and tell her how I've been feeling, that I've decided I'm going to go for it and what support is there round here?
When I got through all the hurdles first time round with BF DD then I really did enjoy it most of the time and I know how the feeling can be really special.
My SIL's attitude was definitely blunt! We're very different people. I just felt with all the torture and indecision I've put myself through over this, maybe a bit of her bluntness would have helped. Probably not though!
Westminster PCT support/run 0-9 month baby groups. I went to Paddington Parents run by Abena Boateng at the Baptist Church opposite the Royal Oak tube but that was 2 years ago now and I've moved out of London now. Lots of Breastfeeders around there though just a case of sourcing them.
I've spoken to a different Midwife this week (as mine is on holiday) and I feel so much more encouraged now, especially after reading all of these posts. Regardless of what people say nowadays, there really is a lot of pressure to bf but my MW has reassured me of what I kind of already knew - that it is only best for baby if it is best for mum too.
So, with 2 days to go until I'm due (and hopefully a few more after that too as I've cracked a rib so labour would be torture at this precise moment!), I'm going to make sure that:
a)baby is delivered onto my tummy to encurage feeding within the 1st hour of birth (as my DS1 was wrapped up in a blanket immediately after he was born and put in a little crib)
b)I will speak to a bf counsellor in the Hospital if one is available and if not I'll speak to my MW (or her locum replacement as she seems excellent) for advice.
and finally and I feel, most importantly,
c) if at any point I don't feel happy or comfortable, I'll know that there are other options such as expressing / combining bf with ff or just formula feeding.
In many respects I do feel envious of somebody who has made a decision not to attempt breastfeeding. I have a number of friends who wouldn't even consider it for one reason or another and given the chances of sore / cracked / bleeding nipples, mastitis, nipple confusion etc etc, its no wonder people decide not to! However, I think I'd be doing myself and baby number 2 an injustice not to even try it. I managed it with DS1 for 3 weeks (even though it was AGONY!) but I know now that it shouldn't hurt so I'd get help immediately if I have any difficulties.
And, if it comes to it, I'll stop if I have to because I have a perfectly healthy little boy and this time I won't feel that I have to prove myself to anyone!
a)baby is delivered onto my tummy to encurage feeding "
This implies that you will give birth lying down, which is more painful and much harder work. If you give birth upright (kneeling, squatting or even standing) you'll need less (if any) pain relief and then baby will be much more likely to feed well from the start. If you are upright ask the MW to pass baby forwards between your legs then sit down and get to know your new person. Cord cutting and placenta delivery are best left (until the cord stops pulsating) as long as everything is ok, so no need to whisk baby away or anything.
And cracked rib, ouch!! Hope it's not too bad and baby arrives smoothly and safely!
I gave birth to my DS1 whilst kneeling up on the bed and found it quite bearable (or as bearable as childbirth can be!) and then sat on the bed afterwards, once the cord had been cut etc.
I plan to use this position again (and any others that feel comfortable - except lying on my back!). Its just that with DS1 he was checked over for all of the usual bits and pieces and then wrapped up and given to us in a blanket. Then within minutes he was put in his crib so I could have my 'embroidery' done.
At the time, I felt that I'd had a good labour and delivery and had managed to stick to my birth plan and only had gas and air throughout. I'm hoping for the same again this time (!) but I feel much more in control that I can say to the MW I'd like to have baby passed to me in my arms / on my tummy immediately.
Just a matter of waiting now - and hoping that my rib mends itself soon!!
Milk is an important source of nutrients that you and your family shouldn’t miss out on. If someone in your family has lactose intolerance and the rest of the family still want to enjoy the taste of real milk, try Lactofree - the UK’s first virtually lactose-free dairy drink.
(I have not much support from family and DH is tied to his work for the foreseeable future)
), I'm going to make sure that: 
