Milk is an important source of nutrients that you and your family shouldn’t miss out on. If someone in your family has lactose intolerance and the rest of the family still want to enjoy the taste of real milk, try Lactofree - the UK’s first virtually lactose-free dairy drink.
Thread for those of us whose los are: * Healthy * Meeting developmental milestones * Producing plenty of soaking wet nappies * Producing several pooey nappies (quantity varies after first six weeks or so) * Gaining weight...
but just much more slowly than the centile charts tell us they should.
This is a thread for help, support and understanding from other Mums who have "been there, done that".
It's where we can share links, share our stories and what if anything we have done to help our lo's weight gain - or whether we've just ditched the scales and looked at the baby.
However, we also don't want to lull other Mums into a false sense of security; if your lo is not meeting the criteria at the top then it is best to get help from a breastfeeding counsellor (or general infant feeding specialist - not all slow gaining babies are breastfed) or supportive health care professional.
I'll join! DS gained 3-4ozs a week for his first eight weeks and I caught all sorts of sh*te from HVs etc. Even though DS active, alert, smiley from four weeks, content...
Eventually took myself off to bf support group who corrected my latch for me (I was holding him a bit awkwardly and he was giving up before getting to the hindmilk), and suggested expressing during the day to give him an extra bottle in the evening.
I did, and he started gaining 8-10 ozs a week. Now at 14 weeks he is still happy and content, and even put on 6ozs last week when he had a cold and was off food.
I can see now that he was always fine, just a bit skinny. But it's a relief and probably worth getting the latch checked out if you're in a similar situation.
mossy as I told you on FB - I had dd2 go from top percentile to bottom in the space of 6 - 12 months. GP did monitor her and see her on a monthly basis BUT she steadily climbed the charts - very slowly. HOWEVER when she had her 2 1/2 yo checkup - she was back up at the top of the chart where she had started.
We are now having the same thing with dd3- she has dropped across the percentiles and when I mentioned that dd2 had done that - we checked her chart and it was clear that my dd3 was going to be like dd2.
I am varying dd3's food - just started weaning and I am feeding her more BUT as it is so hot here at the moment - dd3 tends to be drinking more than feeding iyswim.
I am not worried - she is doing fine - very alert, happy and generally content.
Eids hello do you find it is a relief for you that your dd3 is following a pattern that's already there (from your dd2)? What I mean is, do you panic less because you know it's normal now?
Moorhen, you know, in the first few weeks my ds was gaining very slowly, and my latch was wrong... got it sorted out, and he didn't gain any faster, but he did start settling between feeds, and spent far less time at the breast (he had been feeding on the hour, every hour, for an hour, almost, iyswim!) so I think he is just not meant to be a fast gainer!
I'm back! Quick summary of my story. DS started on about the 25th line and stuck to it until he was about 17 weeks, when we all had a D&V bug. He then lost weight / didn't put on / only put on a few oz each time I've had him weighed from then on. Doesn't help that a few weeks later I had a night in hospital which left me with a few supply problems. He's fine though, and the HV is supportive, calls him 'lean'! Am BLW now, and he's eating very little, although I think that's because he's not really got the hang of it yet. Has anyone expressed regularly in order to top up and increase supply? I'm tempted, but expressing is such a hassle!
Sharpmolarbear, I tried expressing between feeds for just a few days as I often suspected a supply issue, but it was such a faff, as ds is quite high-maintainance and between feeds was when he wanted to snuggle up to me. I tried pumping one side / feeding the other but couldn't get the knack.
I also tried Fenugreek, but it didn't seem to do anything, although it's hard to tell whether or not you have a supply issue isn't it?
I cut out all alcohol and most coffee for a bit - made no difference.
Tried "mothers' milk tea" and other assorted supposed galactagogues like fennel, aniseed, oats for breakfast and the like - again didn't make any difference in his weight so in the end I ruled out supply as an issue.
Which at least means I can have a glass of wine in the evening and a few coffees too! And stop faffing about with tablets, special foods, teas (although that organic mothers' milk tea is very tasty) and the like.
I've heard it said Fenugreek is meant to be the best galactagogue, but you have to take absolutely loads for it to work. And then once you've increased your supply you have to maintain it by ensuring plenty of feeds...
Is he settled between feeds and otherwise doing okay? Also, if you're doing BLW, if he was starving hungry I would have thought he'd just eat more solids to make up for it?
My goodness you could write a book! Yes, he's settled between feeds (although he feeds every 2 hours), and I'm not really worried, I just wondered if this was something I should try. As I'm so lazy, I'm glad you tried all of that stuff as now I don't have to! (Give up coffee ) Also, thanks for teaching me a new word - 'galactagogue' Agree with the high maintenance, it's got better in the last couple of weeks but until recently if DS was asleep he needed to be entertained.
I don't need this thread now - but I would once have done. All my three started at about the 2nd centile, were fully breastfed and went up to about the 9th centile. Then at about 10-12 weeks, weight gain slowed right down, to below the bottom of the charts. Once they got about 2 yrs old, gain began to increase slowly, back onto charts. All are healthy, 2 are very active, 2 bad eaters, one good eater (the best eater currently the lightest for age). HV advised top ups at 5 months, early weaning. We saw paeds and nutritionists with dc2. Looking at their charts though, they all pretty much grew the same way as each other, just not in line with the charts, despite what we did/were advised to do. All are now healthy, bonkers, normal kids, but I was really stressed at the time. Supportive vibes to those who are going through it now...
Ooh yes Hunker would be very interested to read your research on growth charts.
Sharpmolarbear maybe that should be our next support thread title. "Galactagogues. Mossy's tried 'em so you don't have to."
Katepol yes, it's really stressful isn't it? Even when in your heart you know nothing is actually wrong, the fact they are not following some line in some book freaks you out because, well, if the line didn't mean anything why would it be there in the first place?
What I hate is when HVs say "falling through centile lines" which makes it sound like weight loss when it's not, it is weight gain, just quite slow weight gain.
Hi girls Just weighed dd again tonight on our scales. Since we bought them 3 weeks ago she has gained - gulp - 4 oz. So her weight gain which previously averaged just under 3 oz a week, has now slowed to an ounce a week.
So, let's see...she's 15 weeks old tomorrow, but only weighs 8lb 10. She's dropped off the bottom of the charts.
I: have seen HVs have seen GPs have seen paediatricians (pronounced her a "well baby", tho' her weight gain has slowed further since then) have seen lactation specialists Have never had a problem with the latch (never had sore nips ever, please don't hate me) have taken galactogogues <waves at Mossy> have pumped (pathetic yield plus I get blocked ducts as result) bf on demand (roughly every 2-3 hours but sometimes more frequently) Switch nurse sometimes (she always has both sides, anyway) carry dd in a sling co-sleep and feed several times in the night
dd has wet & pooey nappies, bright eyes, clear skin, smiles - no - grins manically, can bear her own weight standing, holds her head up, babbles and blows raspberries like she hasn't a care in the world. She is growing in length faster than she's putting on weight, which means she looks skinnier each week to me.
No-one has really been able to explain why she is not putting on weight. Is it low supply? How would I know? DD doesn't seem "hungry". She feeds and seems satisfied. The only advice I've had was from the lactation specialist who suggested pumping after every feed to increase supply. She seems to think that pumping is the best way to increase supply rather than just feeding more often She told me not to worry about the blocked ducts - but of course each time I get one there's far less milk flow to the baby, which doesn't help.
I just feel at a bit of a loss. On a good day, I can just enjoy being a mummy to my tiny little pixie. I have been known to be Mrs FeistyI'mNotWorried. But on a bad day (tonight for example) I feel physically sick because she seems such an extreme case and I seem powerless to help her gain weight.
I wish there was a bf friendly paediatrician browsing the threads who could help advise.
How bad does it have to get before someone actually tells me to do something differently?
"On a good day, I can just enjoy being a mummy to my tiny little pixie. I have been known to be Mrs FeistyI'mNotWorried. But on a bad day (tonight for example) I feel physically sick because she seems such an extreme case and I seem powerless to help her gain weight."
Yes ikwym. I feel the same.
<<<hugs>>>
When you weigh her, do you weigh her without a nappy every time?
Could she be putting most of her calories into length rather than weight?
Is anyone in your family petite i.e. is it genetic? How quickly did you yourself grow as a baby - do you know?
"she seems to think that pumping is the best way to increase supply rather than just feeding more often" I've heard it said that is the case only if baby is having a problem extracting milk, otherwise baby is always the best way of removing milk from breasts.
At the end of the day, she is gaining weight... just very slowly.
Could you put everything on hold for a day or two and do nothing but lie in bed and feed and see if that helps her weight gain at all?
Anyway, we will have to meet up in rl and our two pixies can meet too and compare red books
Hi Very little carrot, I am a midwife and a BF mum. Firstly your baby sounds lovely and healthy! There were a few things I thought of that might help. What is your nutritional status? Are you a good eater and are you eating enough? I know there is alot written these days about the "healthy" low fat, high fibre, loads of veg diet, but in my experience when you are BF you need alot more calories and fats than usual. Lots of people may jump up and down at that but I can SEE a difference in the milk I express when I am eating low fat and when I am eating normally. In Volume and in colour, much more creamy when eating cakes! lol Also I would go back to your lactation consultant and discuss domperidone tablets, these are sometimes given to mums to increase milk supply, it might just be worth asking.
Thanks gals Mossy: She's weighed bare naked. Hope she's putting her calories into her length. She's actually on the 75th centile for length!!! and has dropped off the bottom for weight. Long, skinny baby. I agree with you about the effective milk removal - this same lactation specialist has seen dd feeding several times and told me she was latched well and getting plenty of milk, so I was surprised at the pumping suggestion.
My dh is short and stocky. I'm 5'7 and was skinnyish this time last year, but thanks to eating like a horse for the last year I am 2 stone heavier dammit! However, I was quite small as a kid and only grew taller at puberty.
So to answer your question, Slim, I am a VERY good eater (as in I eat whatever I want and whenever, and my diet will start at some point in the distant future...) I wouldn't say it was superbly healthy and balanced (carrot cake counts as a vegetable though, right???) but it's fine, really. I don't think I drink enough as I have barely any sense of thirst and have to remember to drink.
vlc you sound so worried. It does sound as though your dd is healthy and fine How often do you see your HV? How often do you get her 'officially' weighed?
I've "sacked" my HV! story is in another thread She was making things worse for us all as a family, and pretty much betrayed my wishes by referring us to a paediatrician the day after she agreed with me that we wouldn't escalate things!
As you'll see, I was in a happier place 3 weeks ago, and I'm sure by tomorrow morning I'll have bucked up again.
VLC I don't think you're a drama queen. I think we're just so so so used to the image of big plump babies like those ones you see in birthday cards popping out of flowerpots that when you see your own lo with skinny arms and titchy legs it has the power to make you sick with worry.
You know, I too eat very healthily (dh sees to it; he is into cooking organic, prepared from scratch meals) with the odd cake for good measure and I too have skinny lo...
Not sure if there is necessarily a link between good eating and good milk, not for everyone, anyway, although individual experiences may be different.
Yes, I too have heard of domperidone... motilium, isn't it? For stomach upsets but has a side effect of increasing prolactin levels iirc.
It might be worth considering if you are sure that your dd's slow weight gain is definitely a supply issue...
You mention your dd feeds every two to three hours... have you tried bfing more often for a few days and seeing if that helps? Not that two to three hours isn't often, that's not what I'm saying, I mean, more to put your mind at rest than anything, introducing one or two extra feeds ... maybe go upstairs, put the radio on, some soothing music or maybe some comedy, lie down and feed her to sleep?
It's only a tiny thought but I have heard it said a dummy can be linked to low weight gain (I think because baby sucks on dummy rather than breast)....?
(Ds doesn't have one btw not that it makes a difference at all.)
DS is 5 months 2 weeks and I am going to get him weighed next Wed. At 21 weeks he was 13lb 11oz - which is below the 9th centile. But he has been training hard and sparring with Ricky Hatton, so we are hoping he is at his fighting weight now.
He is sitting up, grabbing things, blowing bubbles and making lots of oohs and aahs, I think that means he is meeting his milestones.
T does have a dummy btw, wonder if there is a link Oh and i have sore nipples today for the 1st time!! in fact i thought they were bleeding well, off for another feed, hopefully the last. After the lsat 2 nights we are due a sleep through??
What a great idea for a thread, and very timely for me and my lo. Am in my final push of pulling all the stops out to get some weight on DD after my HV gave me her "very considered advice". In a very stern manner to give her a bottle of formula.
She is 16 weeks, born on 98th centile, now is between 9th & 25th. Took her 6 weeks to put on one pound, queue feelings of hopeless inadequacy. Spent a good portion of today in bed babymooning. (And shouting to DP "I can't! I'm making milk!" when he wanted something. Got away with it too!)
lovely to see this thread. I swing from being really happy when I look at my DS and thinking my supply is fine. To panicing that he is too thin and that I have crap supply.
He reaches the developmental milestones sleeps through the night is happy well most of the time. I think he looks in proportion has relatively chunkny legs but is skinny in body.
Have spoken to a BF counselor/NCT teacher/and my doula. She is a jack of all trades used to be a HV so really trust her opinion and she says no worries, but just cant bring myself to be completely happy with my LO's weight gain. Have not taken him to be weighed for ages as fear the HV will "speak" to me about his slow weight gain.
Looking forward to us being able to bolster each others confidence n our LO's ability to thrive without them being big chunky monkey babies.
I just wanted to say that although I've no direct experience (my BF problems are myriad, but weight gain isn't one of them) as my DD is bit of a chunky monkey, I wanted to lend my support as some of you have supported me on my other threads, and I wanted to return the favour .
We're all doing a fab job...keep telling yourselves that
Flashbangfoxy - my ds dropped from 50th to round about the 2nd, and then in the last month to the 0.4th. Have you heard of "catch-down growth"?
It's when baby is born bigger than they were meant to be genetically, maybe because conditions in the womb were just so darn roomy and comfy. Then they spend quite some time catching down to where they were meant to be, genetically speaking. They gain weight, but very slowly. Eventually they find a line and follow it but it can take quite some time for them to find their "line".
What would happen if you stopped going to weigh-ins?
Julie hello to you too; I'm sure if there was a real problem your rather impressive sounding ex HV (why are the good ones no longer in the profession?!) would tell you... you sound like you know everything is fine but just need to be told now and again, like many of us here I think.
Because even though someone tells you your lo is fine sometimes it can panic you when they are so much littler than your friends' babies.
DynamiteDaisy thanks for the support.
Molarbear, I only said that about the dummy just in case, but I don't think it's some kind of massive major factor, it's just one thing I have heard can make a difference occasionally. [smile[
Exactly what I thought, but no mention of it from the HV.
The trouble I have is that we are just so darned busy and she is so placid and content there is always something else which I can 'just' do before I get to her. (She is DC4). All my los are quite petite, so I agree, she was never destined to be a big girl.
I'm not sure its possible to keep up this level of feeding, and effort I'm putting in, but we will see tomorrow at her weigh-in.
Hi all - just found this thread after smb mentioned it to me the other day. Bit tricky to post properly atm but will come back when I can.
But just quickly my ds was 8lb 13.5 when he was born but 2 weeks ago at 26 weeks he was 12lb 4 and right off the bottom of the charts. However hes now on solids, eats like a horse and the last couple of weeks has been waking all through the night for bfeeds too. Had him weighed today and he is 14lb! Cant quite believe it, he is back in the blue now its such a relief! He even has a little double chin and chubby cheeks!
But it has been a long stressful time getting here and of course we still have to try and maintain this weight gain. Until now he's averaged about 2 oz a week.
In fact I'm now starting to question the last few weigh ins and we've had some pretty funny readings lately But whatever it is I can tell hes chubbing up and got a lot bigger all round and thats enough for me!
I've a theory - I was wondering how everyone's lo's are doing for sleep?
My lo isn't sleeping much in the day. I take her to bed with me at 10/11pm-ish, she generally goes through until 9 am (I've been giving her a 'dream-feed' at 7am) otherwise its pretty random cat-napping.
Anyway, my theory is that she is awake a lot in the day, and so must be burning more calories than if she were sleeping long spells.
I may well be talking out of my backside and clutching at straws - do tell me if you think so!
Hope you don't mind me gatecrashing here. I have a porker of a baby (sorry ) and always wondered if that was partly due to the fact that he sleeps a lot in the day, so would be interested to hear how people answer Foxy's question
I went to see a paediatrician who wanted me to give formula. I DID NOT WANT TO!!! I said if she thought supply was the problem could we try domperidone. She said we hadnt established that supply was the problem, if giving formula increased his weight that would show it was surely giving me domperidone and seeing if it increased his weight would do the same thing?! I told her I would express and use that to supplement. I believe the way to do that is to express and then give a bottle after a full normal breastfeed as an extra and to express after feeds or while your baby is sleeping. I managed this for a little while but it didnt really make any difference. I asked to be referred to a dietician after talking to piffle who had been given a supplement to add to ebm by a dietician for her dd who was ftt. Didnt get to see dietician till he was on solids and eating lots anyway.
If you want to give formula then by all means do but if you dont there are very very few cases where its actually necessary.
Kellymom is great for bfing info if you havent checked it out already. So is tiktok!
I got to 24+weeks exclusively bfing, he was off the bottom of the charts but you've never seen such a lovely smiley happy baby Look at my profile - he's gorgeous
And I think you're right, he hardly sleeps at all in the day, hes very wriggly and active and never has slept much, dd was the same.
Our little'uns are almost the same age, and our experiences sound similar. I've been where you've been regarding the advice from the HV and the pressure of referrals to GPs and paediatricians. Have you read my thread? I got both desperate and angry at the needless pressure and fear caused by my HV.
You have many more options than formula. (and btw pesha, your paed sounds both illogical and uninformed - well done for rejecting her ridiculous advice. Your ds is gorgeous!)
When I'm approaching this logically I can generally remember the following: 1. Breastmilk has more calories and is much more nutritiously advantageous than formula. 2. If more nutrition is required, more bfeeds are preferable to adding formula. 3. If the problem IS low supply, then the solution is to INCREASE the supply (more bfeeding / expressing etc - possibly medication if there seems to be an indication that this might be necessary) 4. But if the problem ISN'T supply, then there needs to be an alternative theory of what might be causing the "problem".
Without knowing a cause how can we possibly know what action to take?!!! It seems pretty shoddy to me for a health care professional to basically say "hmmm, baby not gaining much weight. No idea why. Hmmm. Try feeding baby something inferior to breastmilk."
At the moment, my theory is this. Baby carrot isn't hungry enough!!! She feeds frequently but doesn't take huge amounts at each feed. I would gladly feed her hourly if she wanted. I get twitchy if she goes more than 3 hours between feeds (which doesn't happen often) Can someone tell me how to make my baby hungrier? Please????
I'm still worried. I haven't yet convinced myself that everything's OK. I hate that dd has fallen off the bottom of the charts, and I'm irritated that no-one has been able to put forward a theory as to WHY she isn't gaining as she "should".
But I'm sticking at it for now. It would break my heart to introduce formula now. I've tried so hard to bf exclusively and I would hate it if I ended up pressured into doing something that I KNOW makes no sense. Seek your advice from real bf experts and be confident in your instincts as a mummy.
You sound like you are doing a superb job, under a lot of pressure.
VLC - cant post much as ds is in the middle of breakfast then we're off out.
Your baby carrot is beautiful, was she small when she was born too? Cos she looks dinky in her build iyswim. And you look yourself to be a very small build. I will search for youe thread later rather than asking you to go through it all again here! And I will post links to my various threads as well as I've had some great advice that really helped me through the last 6 months.
My dd and ds1 were both slow gainers, dd especially although not as bad as ds2. I gave dd top up bottles as I knew no better and trusted my hv! And ds1 had ocasional bottles but only when staying with other people. They were both weaned at 4 months as that was the advice then. With both of them their weight took off around 7/8 months and got really chubby! But dd had me worried until then and then from about 1 year on she has always been at the bottom of the charts but she is 7 now and completely healthy just naturally very slim. She can only wear clothes with adjustable waists! Oh and she was 8lb born, I just grow big babies - must be all the cake!
DS1 worried me alot more, he dropped from the very top of the charts tyo off the bottom but is now doing the same and chubbing up nicely. But it has been a real struggle getting him here. i got so sick of everytime i saw the hv being accosted about if i was eating/drinking/resting enough. I've puton weight, I always do whilst bfing. But its the constant insinuation that I'm doing something wrong and its somehow my fault and I'm failing him by trying to do the right thing
And even now hes gaining theres the implied 'oh well it just goes to show it was your milk all along and you should have done something sooner'.
Right i really do have to get on, D is sat in his highchair, sucking his fingers, covered head to toe in weetabix!!
I am finding this thread very supportive. Thank you VLC, your post was great. I agree with all that you said, especially substituting something for something inferior. Doesn't make sense does it?
We went to the GP today. We have agreed that I will express after every feed and build up a bottle of hind milk for later in the day. I did this today, and it honestly felt as though I was force feeding her. But she had it and didn't throw it up.
LO is full of a cold and GP did say she would not have expected her to gain this week as she is quite poorly.
Hey Foxy, sorry to hear about the cold, bah. Poor little foxcub.
Good luck with the expressing. I tried to do this for a while but kept getting blocked ducts which was bloomin annoying. I'm currently trying to pop babycarrot on the breast as frequently as I can, but, like you, I have a feeling of "force feeding", except that she's quite capable of stopping the feed by pulling off, grinning at me and saying "all done now, ta." (I am very good at interpreting her raspberries)
You mentioned sleep habits earlier...dd is starting to nap quite nicely in the day, a couple of naps of at least an hour each, although she has to be cuddled up to me or in the sling, no independent sleeping for this girl, oh no no no...
At night, she sleeps and feeds from 9 ish through to 9ish, but feeding all the way through. A couple of nights ago I noted the night feeds. They went midnight, 2am, 4am, 6am, 8am, 10.30am and noon (I drag my lazy bod out of bed very late ) Can I have a medal?
Actually it's usually not as bad as that. Couldn't do it without co-sleeping though!
Pesha - thanks so much for your kind words. It's sooo reassuring to hear similar tales with happy endings! And babycarrot's birthweight was probably just under 7lb. Scales were wrong. Sigh. She is very slightly built. And thanks for thinking she is beautiful. [proud mummy emoticon] I, on the other hand, have thighs constructed solidly of Haagen Daz and am 2 stones heavier than I was a year ago on my wedding day.
I just dropped some fresh cream victoria sponge on babycarrot's head whilst she feeds. Seriously. I'm having to blow away the icing sugar out of her ear.
This thread is great, and i like reading it as i'm dealing with some of the same issues, but just want to remind you that, as stated in the original post "not all slow gaining babies are breastfed". I'm all for encouraging a breastfeeding mother to continue breastfeeding her baby despite slow weight gain, but considering that this is not a private conversation, please remember that by mocking the idea of using formula because it's "something inferior" (whether or not it is) might alienate some mothers to whom this thread is intended to offer support.
DS was weighed yesterday - 14lb 6oz @ 24weeks, so he is still just under the 9th centile line. He has put on 11oz in 3 weeks. HV said he is fine - been following the same rate of growth for a few weeks now.
He is a heavyweight compared to some of the babies on this thread!
Foosh - you are right - and I apologise. Will definately try to be more considerate. The last thing I'd want to do is turn this thread into the bf v ff battle!
Well done to your cub Gingerbear. That sounds like good progress.
Foosh - I completely apologise if anyone was offended by the "inferior" comment. It was absolutely NOT my intention to do that - really sorry!
I wasn't trying to mock formula in any way, though, I promise...what I was trying to demonstrate (badly, I appreciate ) was that the rationale applied by misinformed doctors is very illogical. Purely from a nutritional perspective, if breastmilk is considered inadequate by the doctors, then it is daft to think that formula would be any better - nutritionally. I hope that is a better way of expressing what I mean. This is the fact that we wish the doctors would grasp. The frustration in my thread is aimed at the poor and undermining advice that our healthcare professionals sometimes give us. It's sometimes difficult to argue with doctors as to the benefits of breastmilk over formula if they are misinformed, and I was trying to give others some encouragement with countering arguments. It was really about trying to stand our ground when we are being pressured to stop our exclusive breastfeeding, which I hope you'll agree, is important to be able to do.
I can understand how the word "inferior" regarding formula could be seen as tactless to anyone on this thread, so I apologise again for being thoughtless.
However, in the situation Foxy and I face, where ill-informed professionals are advising us to do the wrong thing, it might need to be the blunt stick used with the doctors whose advice and pressure we are trying to hold out against.
I care very much that I don't offend or hurt other Mums with comments about baby feeding. I don't care a jot if I get the back up of an ignorant doctor by putting blunt facts in front of them.
I want to make sure my position is clear right now though - formula fed or breastfed - doesn't matter - this thread is for supporting everyone. There is NOOOO judgement here! It's a judgy free thread!
Oh, no need for apologies. And I just reread my first post -- I didn't mean to sound so stern! I'd make a good headmaster, don't you think?
Anyway, I don't think that weight gain has much to do with the type of milk your baby is drinking - there are big ginormous breastfed babies and little pixie formula fed babies.
Next time you speak with your doctor, tell them that you have a friend (that would be me) who has a 10mo formula fed baby who hovers around the 2nd percentile, and always has. In his first month he dropped from about 50th to under 9th, and when I switched from bf'ing at about the end of month 2, there was no effect at all on my his weight.
I think my db just has a very small appetite - always has for at least as long as I've been able to track what's going in. He's always had about half the "recommended" amount for his age and size, if that. Now at 10 mos, he's upped his milk intake significantly, but barely licks his solid food. Sometimes he touches it with his tongue. Despite this, he's thriving in every way possible. When he was younger I was so worried that he'd start to really suffer from lack of calories once he became older and more active, but his tiny appetite hasn't slowed him down one bit - in fact I shudder at the thought of him having any more energy than he does right now!
And VLC -- I saw that below you asked about stimulating your db's appetite? I've heard that extra iron is supposed to do that. But it can also make them constipated. You can get it in the form of a liquid and give it to db like you give Calpol.
Wow, I go AWOL for a few days and so many posts! Hello to everyone new nice to see you in the pixie club!
I do wonder if there is a link between sleep and weight gain. BabyMossy doesn't sleep much during the day, or certainly doesn't go into a deep sleep. He catnaps, and like VLC's lo, not independently; only snuggled up, or at the breast...
He too feeds throughout the night. I really do mean throughout. If he's ever off my breast I don't know about it; whenever I wake he's either suckling or rooting. Sometimes I roll over to swap sides.
I ditched my clock actually, so now I just don't know how often he wakes.
I too take solice in sharing sleep; I would be a wreck if I had to pick him up and put him back down every time he needed feeding.
I tell this to dh when he says that he knows babies who are in their own rooms by six months let alone their own cots!
I have resolved now that I am not going to get ds weighed again (except for injections). It just stresses me too much. It's that feeling that you have to somehow justify yourself, like you're somehow a bad Mum because your lo is little.
VLC - haven't been around much lately so havbe only just come acroos your threads.
From what I have read it appears to me that your baby is perfectly healthy but small.
Please stop weighing her because it is a vicious cicle. The more you weight the more anxious you get about poor weight gain. That in itself can have an inhibiting effect on milk production and effective feeding.
That said, to be honest it doesn't sound as though you do not have enough milk. Your baby just isn't a fast gainer.
I have 2 friends who have tint babies. One did not breastfeed long term until she had her 3rd baby. With the first 2 she changed to bottle feeding and the weight gain was the same.
Thesecond friend switched to formula with her second child and he actually ended up admitted and tested due to poor weight gain and guess what - he was perfectly healthy but small.
I answered your domperidone question and it will do no harm to try it if you want but I suspectit will not make a difference.
Your little DD is just that - little
My 4th baby was half the size of her brothers and I was badgered by the HV to start solids because her weight gain was slow. I got her weighed less ofetn than her brothers but I liked to compare by baby's weight charts (how ill informed was I then).
I stuck to my guns and started solids at 6 months. Didn't make a difference. She still gained slowly.
Your baby has been reviewed and is healthy.
Put aweay the scales and don't weigh her again at least for 2 months (if at all).
Thanks for the help Mears, I was hoping you'd see the dompreidone question.
I'm pretty sure that you're right about my supply being OK, and babycarrot just being tiny. Only that just after we got back from the paediatrician thinking everything was hunkydory, didn't the little pixie decide not to gain anything for three weeks, having consistently put on 2-3 ounces every week prior to that. So off I go on a collywobble trip again...
I spoke to the lactation specialist in baby cafe about the domperidone, and she agreed it was worth trying in light of the weight plateau. (I've since been reading that it's not uncomon for weght to plateau at this age) Babycarrot's weight also seemed striking as I sat next to my pal whose newborn son weighed more than my 15 weeker!
So really, having tried everything else, I just thought it wouldn't hurt to try this as well.
I plan to pop a bottle of bubbly when she reaches 9lb.
Seriously you deserve a medal for your perseverance.
Try the domperidone and see what happens - it will do no harm.
Is your DD an active wee thing who uses up a lot of calories? She maybe uses up a lot of what she gets in. Also make sure she is nice and warm - babies use calories up when maintaining temperature. Try an extra cardigan
Hi, just thought I'd add to the sleep study DS sleeps very little during the day, but quite well at night. In fact he sleeps even less since becoming active, usually 20 minutes x 3 times (am assuming this is not much for a 6mo, tell me if it's a lot). Genetically, well...I am not petite
Thats about the most we get SPB and thats nearly always while attached to me or in the trolley or car seat, strangely he doesnt seem to sleep in the pushchair very often but that could just be to do with timing. He did just have 40 mins on my bed upstairs after falling asleep feeding and i was able to sneak off and leave him but thats only the 2nd time ever!
Pesha, that's so funny to read about the exhilaration of being able to sneak off and leave the baby ^sleeping unassisted^ !!!!!!
I too have rejoiced on the infrequent occasions I've been able to do this (can count them on one hand). Perversely, I end up anxiously listening out for any squeak as I'm so unused to being detached from her.
And Mears, I suppose she is fairly active - she's not a placid baby by any means! And have used your point re wrapping up warm to justify my adding some cheeky little items to her winter wardrobe today whilst out shopping... cutiebabycarrot is toasty warm.
Like daisy I just wanted to pop on here and offer my support. DD is a tiddler on the 9th centile, but has always followed her line, but I know what it is like to have bfing probs and pressure from people to give up. Good luck to all of you, and if you are are bfing (I assume you all are if you are having weight gain 'problems') just look at your LO what ever size they are and be proud that you have nurtured and made every inch of them
Oops, just read down a bit at fooshes post and realised that some people still have slow weight gaining babies while FF so hope I didn't offend anyone with my last post . I hope everyone who needs it is finding support from this thread. As mothers we all face the same battles, and beat ourselves with some stick or another.
my lad is 5 weeks old and has dropped from 50th to 2nd line, only putting on 4 ouces (weight was static for weeks)
its all been a bit complicated and compounded by the fact cmv was detected in his urine following routine testing for prolonged jaundice. Lots of pressure to top up so am now doing that using ebm and formula. He\appears to be healthy and well- is alert and active and all tests following detection of cmv have come back clear / normal. Jaundice was not connected to the infection.
Often he doesn't bf that great. Tends to fall asleep at boob but drinks really well from medela softcup i've been using. Also think my supply has been a bit affected by all the stress and anxiety. Hoping that he puts on some pies and i can resume exclusive bfing
cmv - cytomeglavirus. Pretty harmless infection for most people but can cause lots of damage to developing baby during pg if mother does not have immunity to it. Dunno whether i had immunity or not yet; if not then he contracted it v late in pg or shortly after birth cos he has no clinical signs of it.
I know breastmilk is absolutly the best thing for him now - infection can also lead to deafness in newborns so all the antibodies i can give him the better- but am also desperate for him to gain weight- though of course he might have had this weight issue without the infection - difficult to know
Welcome to all new people... isn't it amazing how many people's los have weight gain "problems"... it's almost as if the growth charts might not be the be all and end all after all...
Pesha / VLC lol at independent sleep... it took ages before babymossy would sleep independently; he still only does this in the evening for about three or four hours... although that's the time I need it most I suppose.
Mears I will try putting an extra cardi on babymossy, I hadn't thought about that!!
Ejb how much are you topping up with? It sounds like you are thinking of phasing out the top ups?
SPB, yes about three lots of twenty minutes is the usual for ds except in the last week or so; dh has been off work and takes babymossy for a sleep on the rocking chair; ds has been doing an hour here and there; yesterday even did an hour and a half
So what I need when he goes back to work (he is off sick) is someone to come and do an hour's worth of housework so I can spend this time holding babymossy while he sleeps....
Hello everyone! I think easy-going, 2nd or subsequent babies can often put weight on more slowly because they could actually eat more but they don't make a fuss and Mum is busy with the older children. I think this is what happened with my 2nd. Both of mine were small at birth (5 lb 13 oz) and were breastfed, with supplementary bottle feeding introduced at 6 weeks and 4 months respectively. My first is now nearly 4 and tall and slim for her age! She is lively, intelligent, well behaved and and enjoying her preschool! So no problems there. My second (now 5 months) was also born on the 9th centile but droppped off the bottom of the chart between 2 and 3 months of age. This was a worrynig time but I think I worried unnecessarily. She is on the 25th centile for length and is developing well for her age, cooing, picking things up, rolling around on the floor etc. Her weight gain is picking up now that she is 50/50 breast and bottle. She is a very content, easy going baby and I think in the early days she got fed less than she could take because she hardly ever cried! I was also busy with my 3 year old and so the baby often had to wait for a feed. I tried to feed her more often and I think that helped. I have to say the formula has also helped increase her weight. But if I had carried on exclusively breastfeeding I think she would still be healthy, if a bit thinner. So if your baby doesn't cry it doesn't necessarily mean he/she couldn't manage a bit more milk, they have just learned to fit in with the rest of the family, which is great, but perhaps you could squeeze in one or two more feeds during the day?
I think that might be the case with easygoing babies... squeeze in a few more feeds!
... only trouble is, babymossy is anything but easy going... if he is hungry he will grab at my chest, he has learned to "sign" for milk now and does this regularly...
I am just trying not to worry any more... not easy though!
my son is 8 months old and according to the charts he is under in everything. in weight he is in the 9th centile, length he is in the 2nd centil and head circ he is below the lowest line so in the 04th centile. the hv had me worried saying he had a small head which threw me into a blind panic. but like someone pointed out earlier the charts are not the be all and end all. my son is doing his milestones and so what if he is small, he is perfectly normal! so ladies do not take too much notice if your baby seems fine apart from a littel smaller than the usual. my son is bf, i have been told that the reason for his lack of growth is becasue i have poor quality bm! no, i think it has more to do with the fact that both his parents are small in frame of average height!
Lulu, I really do think you have a point there re 2nd babies being "fitted" in with the others. Also, my dd1 keeps distracting dd2 when I am trying to feed her which doesn't help matters.
My dd2 weighed 6 11 at birth and was on the 25th centile but has slowed down and is now hovering above the 9th. She is incredibly happy, sleeps fab etc etc. but I was worrying as she was only averaging 3 ounces a week. The HV was saying to come back every 2 weeks.
Saw my GP today and the basically said it was a load of bollocks and not to go back for 2 MONTHS!
My worry was/is still to a degree that her poo is always green ( she is formula fed ) and smells like stewed rhubarb (sorry tmi) and this can be a sign of stuff going through the digestive system too quickly. However again the GP just said, some people have slow systems, some have quick. And it isn't like she is pooing as soon as she is fed.
So, my mind has been put at ease.
I really hope that everyone can get some answers, or have their minds put at rest like I have today.
I think FF babies have a light green poo, whereas BF are mustard coloured IME.
Definately agree with subsequent children being less demanding as babies. Certainly doesn't help when feeding on demand, as my LO just doesn't demand it. And there's always something else to get done. I've been aiming for 2 hourly feeds (setting the alarm on my mobile phone helps) and expressing after each feed. Then using the expressed hind milk to top up in the evening.
I have doubted whether its been worth all the effort this week and wondering if I have just made life much harder for myself. We are co-sleeping so she is feeding in the night too.
But I had her weighed today and she has gained 6oz. The biggest gain yet. We are still being referred to the paediatrician, and going back next week for another weigh-in. Am so delighted with this weeks progress and I've such a sense of achievement.
I'm pleased I didn't let the HV scare me into going against my instincts. Isn't there a better way of saying "failure to thrive" when they obviously aren't?
Foxy the paediatrician told me its now referred to as Faltering Growth!
I have to say although it possibly is in some cases that the mum has less time to feed on demand when there are older siblings this isn't always so. I found it hugely frustrating when the hvs were constantly going on at me to rest and saying in their best patronising voices 'oh it must be so hard to find the time to sit down and feed with older dcs'. It wasn't that hard, dd was at school, ds1 was at playschool every morning and in the afternoon was always tired so would have sit down on the sofa having cuddles and watching tv time. Dp works nights so would be up about 3 pm and usually did dinner and my house was an absolute tip!! D fed for 1-2 hours or so every morning (although this usually included a short nap), 1-2 hours after lunch, 1-2 hours at tea time, 2-3 hours before bed and for the first 4 months every 3-4 hours through the night if not more. And a good 2 hours before we got up in the morning too. The first 3 months if we went anywhere chances were he was in the sling bfing. I really dont think I could have fed him more.
This isnt directed at you btw lulu I think you have a valid point, it just reminded me how frustrated I was by hvs assuming that was the case regardless of what i said iyswim.
I think that every case has its contributing factors, but at the end of the day the 'professionals' don't seem to take into account they may well just be small. It is massively frustrating.
I'm sure we'll go to the paediatrician who will say "does she sleep?" "Is she happy?" etc etc and then "she's fine"!!!
My DD was 6lbs 12oz born (25th centile) She is now 31 weeks and weighed today 13lbs 14oz. She is now between the 2nd and the 0.4th centile. She has never lost weight, but has from about 3/4 months 'fallen through the centiles' Averaged out over the 31 weeks she has gained 3.5oz per week.
HV concerned because of the centile drop in weight and that her length is just under the 50th centile meaning there are over 3 centiles difference between her weight and length...apparently this is not allowed according to their guidelines so she wants me to go to the GP.
I'd already spoken to GP about it and she wasn't concerned and told me to tell HV that, but HV still insisting I go back.
I am 4ft 11 and pre pregnancies weighed about 7 stone...so am not huge, DH also not that big. Why oh why can't HVs look at the big picture?
I'm not worried about DD until I have her weighed and HV worries me. She doesn't look skinny to me although she is petite IYSWIM. I don't really want to stop having her weighed as I like to know, just don't need the stress!
Anyway sorry I've waffled on enough. Nice that we can all support each other.
May l introduce you all to another pixie, my 15 week today DD, this thread could not have come at a better time. She was weighed today and has gained zilch ! She was 6 days over due 8llb 3oz on birth and now weighs 11lb 1 oz. We took several weeks to get back up to her birth weight, and have very slowly gained thus far. She is my second my first DS is two, she sleeps independently from 9 until 4 or 5am and then cat naps during the day, we do all co sleep in the afternoons for around 2 hours when she has a long feed, other than that its around every 2-3 hours during the day, long feeds first thing in the morning and before bed. My MIL and SIL are both petite and slim so she could be taking after that side of the family. My DS followed a similar pattern, and is still lean but very happy and intelligent. l have been through 2 bouts of mastitus and am still fighting a thrush infection in one breast which l think is inhibiting my supply some what. l do not even bother speaking to the HV at clinic anymore l just self weigh and leave, l get a better response at baby cafe.
Foxy - that is bloomin fantastic news about the weight gain, I'm thrilled for you! I'm sure the paediatrician will give you the all clear. When I saw the paed with dd, I called the lactation specialist at the hospital first and arranged for her to meet me and evaluate feeding / latch / discuss milk supply first. This meant that she was able to ward off any potentially dodgy advice from the paed about "topping up", by ensuring he knew bf was fine. Call me a sceptic, but I wanted him to hear it from her!
BusywithIzzy - I bought a set of baby scales from TK Maxx so that I could play truant from the weighing clinic
And I *do not get* this idea that babies should be uniform on their height / weight / head circ centiles. You'd think that there were no such things as short fat people / tall thin people / big bonces / pinheads and every variation and combination in between.
Baby carrot is on the 75th for length, 50th for head circ, but in "failure to thrive" for weight...OMG, I've birthed a lollipop - call me an ambulance...or the daily mail...
BTW - domperidone experiment is not doing any harm...baby carrot has broken out of her plateau and has gained a couple of ounces - YAY!!! She is now 8lb 13.4 (don't forget the .4, it's v important).
Ok I went to the GP with DD and what a pointless visit it was.
He looked at the chart...not at her at all only checked her heart to make sure there was no murmur Then said she looks like a classic BF baby who isn't getting enough calories from breast milk and needs formula He went on to say he didn't mind which make I used but if I used it for 4 bottles a day and BF in the evening she would be climbing up the charts again by Christmas
So I smiled sweetly and said yes and no in all the right places and stuck two fingers up at him after I left!
So here we are again no useful advice from anyone except stop BF and change to formula which I will not do after BF for 7 months.
busywithizzy - i am in same boat as you completely. funny how on one hand they encourage you to bf then the next minute basically implying yu are starving your child with bm!!! we will never be right in the eyes of our hvs! i always come away feeling iadequate as a (first time) mum!
Have only just found this thread. My 4th baby (dd3) is 7 months old and is following exactly the same pattern as her sisters and brother. Was on 75th centile at birth but by 20 weeks had dropped to just under the 9th.
However because I have been through this with the others I am much more relaxed about it, and in fact have not been back to the clinic since she was 20 weeks.
I started her on solids at 5 months and introduced some formula as I was going back to work for a few hours a week. However, this has made very little difference to her weight gain, contrary to all the advice given by the HV.
I think my babies were not meant to be plump. They have all been healthy and happy and reached all the various milestones at the right times. Reading through the posts I get the impression that most of you have babies similar to mine.
My advice is try not to worry too much and remember that you know your baby better than anyone else.
My tiny skinny baby ds is now 19 and measures 6'3. He eats like a horse but is still very slim. Nobody ever asks me what centile he's on now!
The trouble I have is, and I must stop this, is comparing my 2 dd's. dd1 who is now 4.5 was always on the 75th centile so I suppose I expected dd2 to be the same.
I have renamed the Health Visitors as Health Uninvited Visitors
My dd2 has been on formula since she was born, so the theory about bm not being filling and them recommending ff is pants.
I just wish they would open their eyes and look at genetics. Who are these charts based on? For how long have the charts been the same I wonder?
Milk is an important source of nutrients that you and your family shouldn’t miss out on. If someone in your family has lactose intolerance and the rest of the family still want to enjoy the taste of real milk, try Lactofree - the UK’s first virtually lactose-free dairy drink.
And stop faffing about with tablets, special foods, teas (although that organic mothers' milk tea is very tasty) and the like.
)
She told me not to worry about the blocked ducts - but of course each time I get one there's far less milk flow to the baby, which doesn't help.
